2017 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

[Massey]

Of course

[gilgamboa]

@Sidney

It hasn’t been a failure.

There has always been a gap between the strong and the weak

Exactly. Carlow won fuck all but they still had a good season and I’m sure the players felt it was worth the effort.

Most people who play sport at any level will lose more games than they win but people keep playing because, as cliched and all as it is, it is about a lot more than winning trophies

[Sidney]

@Massey

Your right about this 100%.But overall the backdoor has only suited the bigger counties.If they truly wanted to give the “weaker” counties a second chance the back door should have been limited to Div 3 and 4 teams.But my own crowd have only themselves to blame,no point having a back door when some of your team don’t give a shit and go on the lash a week before a qualifier,especially one which they have a chance of winning

Loads of weaker counties have had good runs in the back door that they wouldn’t have had under the old system or under a tiered system.

Sligo, Fermanagh, Wexford, Tipperary, Clare, Limerick etc. Longford are a good example of a county who have consistently made good use of the back door and had excellent wins they wouldn’t have had otherwise.

@Massey

Of course

To call any match involving a team which doesn’t have a realistic chance of an All-Ireland “fluff” is a terribly utilitarian attitude to take.

Those who advocate a tiered system ironically have the most utilitarian attitude of all.

The tiered hurling competitions have been a disaster and should be a lesson for football.

It’s only a short hop from a tiered competition to people advocating counties amalgamate or withdraw from inter-county competition altogether.

[Massey]

If sport was only about winning trophies nobody would play,your right about carlow,the fact they had a few wins at home helps too

[Massey]

What would Sidney tell Div 4 teams so,train harder,spend more money?

[Sidney]

@Massey

What would Sidney tell Div 4 teams so,train harder,spend more money?

Train harder and smarter is generally the advice given to anybody in any sport if you want to be better, isn’t it?

More money and spending it smartly generally helps in that regard, yes?

[Massey]

What if one team has 2 million and the other has 100k

[Sidney]

@Massey

What if one team has 2 million and the other has 100k

Inequality is built into the system. Always has been, always will be. It would be the same in a tiered competition, just even more disheartening for those at the bottom.

As I’ve said, the tiered hurling competitions provide the lesson. Antrim in hurling demonstrates what can happen if you give a county nothing to aim for. Football should stay away from segregating itself because that will increase the gap between the strong and the weak more than anything. It’s the sporting equivalent of pulling the ladder up like the Tories or the Republicans do.

[carryharry]

I would disagree here.

Coach your coaches better. Start from the ground up, draw up a plan with a clear vision of where you want to be in 10-15 years not 2 or 3 as weaker Counties normally do. 2 or 3 year plans for success involve bringing in Star Studded Names as managers in the belief they will turn donkeys into derby winners.

Tipperary ( although not yet near an AI but a County with a dramatic upward curve ) had the foresight to say clearly that from U14 through to U21 was where they needed to go in terms of building a future.
A Co Board chairman was laughed at for saying he wanted TIPP winning an AI by 2020 I think.
Hard work at base levels saw TIPP win a Minor AI & come close to winning an U21 title while also feeding from those teams to contest a Senior AI SF.
It’s not rocket science, it’s not always about population, it’s very much about setting procedures in place for clubs, coaches, players and County teams to get the best out of the players they have.

[Massey]

The leitrim Hurlers made an All Ireland final in croke park this year,how’s that bad for hurling.Antroim have to paddle their own canoe.

[Sidney]

@carryharry

Coach your coaches better. Start from the ground up, draw up a plan with a clear vision of where you want to be in 10-15 years not 2 or 3 as weaker Counties normally do. 2 or 3 year plans for success involve bringing in Star Studded Names as managers in the belief they will turn donkeys into derby winners.
.
Tipperary ( although not yet near an AI but a County with a dramatic upward curve ) had the foresight to say clearly that from U14 through to U21 was where they needed to go in terms of building a future.
A Co Board chairman was laughed at for saying he wanted TIPP winning an AI by 2020 I think.
Hard work at base levels saw TIPP win a Minor AI & come close to winning a U21 title while also feeding from those teams to contest a Senior AI SF.
It’s not rocket science, it’s not always about population, it’s very much about setting procedures in place for clubs, coaches, players and County teams to get the best out of the players they have.

That’s all part of spending money smarter.

Again Monaghan and Roscommon are two great examples.

[Massey]

Where were they 10 years ago,where will they be in 10 years.

[carryharry]

Money spent on Football Development squads in Tipp has been really well spent. It’s a real shame the general public don’t get behind the team though.

[Massey]

Monaghan and Roscommon are like stopped clocks,eventually their right

[Sidney]

@Massey

Where were they 10 years ago,where will they be in 10 years.

Monaghan have been making incremental progress for the last 15 years.

Roscommon have been building at underage level for roughly the same amount of time.

Who knows where any of us will be in 10 years.

[Aristotle]

None of the players from Division 3 or 4 counties want to play in a B tournament. They want more meaningful games, if possible, but they do want a crack off the big teams if they are good enough to win those games.

[Nembo_Kid]

Fermanagh have the smallest playing numbers in the country yet have shown they can be competitive with top teams. They haven’t had big money behind them, they have achieved that with a good spirit and correct attitude.

The great about Ulster football is it’s a meritocracy, all things are equal and it’s really about getting back what you put in. In Munster, for instance, the top teams are given a leg up every year to compete in the latter stages - it’s like it only cares about how their golden child gets on.

In a way it’s a bit sad about Tipp football, the bunch of players are very honest and plucky but when a side are on the verge of making progress and one of their best player decides to drop football to be a bit part player in hurling then it’s hard to ever see that progress being sustained.

[Mullach_Ide]

@Nembo_Kid

Fermanagh have the smallest playing numbers in the country yet have shown they can be competitive with top teams. They haven’t had big money behind them, they have achieved that with a good spirit and correct attitude.

The great about Ulster football is it’s a meritocracy, all things are equal and it’s really about getting back what you put in. In Munster, for instance, the top teams are given a leg up every year to compete in the latter stages - it’s like it only cares about how their golden child gets on.

In a way it’s a bit sad about Tipp football, the bunch of players are very honest and plucky but when a side are on the verge of making progress and one of their best player decides to drop football to be a bit part player in hurling then it’s hard to ever see that progress being sustained.

Nothing sad about that mate, hurling is nr 1 in Tipperary.

[grapes]

As a Limerick man I always cheer for the underdog so I will be shouting for Down and Kildare today.

[carryharry]

You are aware that the Horrible Cunt of a Man John Doyle played for Kildare?