But that misses the point entirely. You single out Netanyahu as if he is the sole problem with Israel. He isnât. His supremacist ideology is the dominant one within Israeli society and politics.
This is a widespread societal problem within Israel.
Why should Jews who were ethnically cleansed from almost every country in Europe and all Arab countries not have the right to return? You anti Semitism is very apparent.
Complete ignorance of Israel. I suppose you also believe Islamists are not supremacists?
1 Like
Do they not? If they donât they should.
Youâre going cray cray again with the accusations of anti-Semitism. Funnily enough Iâve given you ample opportunity to condemn the extensive and increasing anti-Semitism within US conservative politics. Youâve never done so.
For the record I condemn all anti-Semitism.
1 Like
How is it complete ignorance? Itâs a fact. The supremacist ideology is dominant within Israeli society. If it wasnât, it wouldnât be dominant in its politics. It is.
You donât, you defended Jeremy âour friends in Hamasâ Corbyn for years on here. Are Hamas anti Semitic?
The only thing thatâs dominant in Israeli politics is a desire to not live in an Islamist state, for obvious reasons.
If you were gay where would you prefer to live? Israel or one of itâs neighbors? How about if you were a woman? Yet thatâs what you expect of Jews, to accept living in an Islamist state. Itâs mindboggling where leftists find themselves, supporting ideology that has the worst human rights record on the planet.
Sums it up alright
Well I would say they are, but you also have to understand the context. Hamas exists because Palestine was stolen, just like the IRA exists because the Brits occupy part of Ireland.
To Hamas and to Palestinians in general, Jews are the invader who stole their land, and itâs very easy to see why they would have that opinion. Theyâve had to suffer a constant erosion of any territory even nominally considered as theirs, as settlers who have never been to the region constantly move in and displace them, steal their homes and their land. Theyâve had to suffer to constant indignity of being bombed from the air with seemingly no right to self defence whatsoever. Thatâs the context.
So if you hear âJews outâ or something like that from anybody on the Palestinian side, reprehensible as this language seems, the truth is itâs not very different at all in sentiment from âBrits outâ.
Now clearly because of the Holocaust, this does seem like very threatening language, and it really would be for the best if it was dispensed with.
But you can quite clearly see how exactly they would have come to this view. Itâs because Jews invaded them, stole their land and ethnically cleansed them into ghettos. Thatâs simply a fact. Israel self-identifies as a Jewish state, it was fought for and formed by Jews, and operates as an apartheid state. Palestinians of all ideologies understandably see this as a great historical injustice, and they are correct, it is a great historical injustice.
The reason Hamas exists is basically the exact same as the reason any variation of the IRA existed. Itâs the same reason the PLO existed/exists. Because the Palestinian population were treated as sub human, to a greater degree than the Irish were at any stage of the 20th century were, incidentally. You donât have to agree with any version of the IRA in the 20th century to see why they existed. They existed because the Irish people, south and north, were treated like dirt by a supremacist oppressor.
1 Like
Well thatâs the crux of it isnât it? They are essentially an occupying force and as a result opposition is always going to rise up.
But you see youâre once again uttering extremist language and deliberately and mendaciously mispresenting the position of Palestine itself and the overwhelming majority of the people who support the Palestinian cause.
Hamas is not the Palestinian cause in the same the the PIRA was not the cause of Northern Catholics.
Youâre just trying to pretend it is because you want to see the Palestinian people kept down. Thatâs what Ruth Dudley Edwards does.
The overwhelming majority of Palestinians just want to live in peace and with some form of dignity. Thatâs what the overwhelming majority of people who support their cause internationally want.
Whether that is in a two state plan, a one state plan, or a federal plan, any of these would be acceptable to the majority of Palestinians because they would provide that peace, security and dignity.
Israel refuses all of these plans categorically.
Surely anybody can see that? If you treat a people as sub human over many decades, youâre going to get armed resistance.
How could you not?
If there is no hope of making political gains, and it seems to me there is absolutely no hope of Palestine making any gains politically, what do you do?
How would you go about removing all 650,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank?
Absolute nonsense. The majority of Palestinians whether in the occupied territories or Israel want all of what they regard as historical Palestine regained by Palestinians⌠2/3 believe that resistance should continue until Palestine is liberated from the river to the sea.
Like all pro Palestinian Europeans you are hopelessly naive.
1 Like
The Balfour Declaration has been cited by a particular pro-Israel poster several times over the years.
The Balfour Declaration reads:
His Majestyâs Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
Letâs focus on these words:
it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine
Have these words ever been lived up to?
I think on any reasonable reading youâd have to say a firm No.
Sure thatâs nonsense. Yasser Arafat signed the Oslo Accord. Which was in effect a surrender. But which Israel flagrantly broke.
Palestinians rightly demand the right of return to the land from which they were displaced. Israel has an absolute moral duty to provide that.
You really need to move beyond your position of all Palestinians being animals. It doesnât help you.
Watch this interview with the Palestinian Ambassador to the UK. Tell me what he says.
1 Like
Has any other Western democracy been invaded and had to defend its territory as many times as Israel since 1948
Israel has never been invaded since 1948. Palestine has been invaded on too many occasions to remember and remains invaded.