Abortion Referendum Thread

GeoffreyBoycott · May 23, 2018, 4:13pm

tallback:

Under the current Irish constitution (i.e. with the 8th amendment) it is not possible to legislate for these “hard cases” and the No side has not produced any alternative wording to my knowledge with most lawyers suggesting it would be near impossible to do so and that the constitution is not he correct place for it anyway. To be honest, in my opinion the No side have been hugely disingenuous by suggesting this kind of alternative now that their position seems to be sinking when it’s clear they’d fight tooth and nail against it too.

On that basis, It sounds like you should vote to repeal and then lobby your local politician to legislate as per your proposal and continue to hold the politicians to account on that basis. The current legislation is a proposal only and will need to pass through the Dail. Considering the FF pro-life catholic-wing opposition my suspicion is that even if the 8th is repealed there will be strong pressure to water it down.

The alternative is that effectively you’re happy to stick your fingers in your ears about these hard cases, continue to export them to the UK so they’re “out of sight, out of mind for you” and let a generation pass us before we vote again.

Cowardly in my opinion if you are genuinely of the belief that some change should happen.

Why should I vote to repeal the only Constituational protection that there is for the right to life of the unborn, when I believe in the right to life of the unborn? The Supreme Court confirmed unanimously as recently as March of this year that the 8th Amendment is the only Constitutional protection that there is for the unborn. I believe that any termination is the taking of human life but that termination is justified and should be permitted in circumstances such as fatal foetal abnormalities, rape and cases where there is genuine risk of suicide. I don’t believe in abortion on demand though and I feel that the inevitable consequence of a Yes vote on Friday will be abortion on demand.

tallback · May 23, 2018, 4:27pm

GeoffreyBoycott:

tallback:

Under the current Irish constitution (i.e. with the 8th amendment) it is not possible to legislate for these “hard cases” and the No side has not produced any alternative wording to my knowledge with most lawyers suggesting it would be near impossible to do so and that the constitution is not he correct place for it anyway. To be honest, in my opinion the No side have been hugely disingenuous by suggesting this kind of alternative now that their position seems to be sinking when it’s clear they’d fight tooth and nail against it too.

On that basis, It sounds like you should vote to repeal and then lobby your local politician to legislate as per your proposal and continue to hold the politicians to account on that basis. The current legislation is a proposal only and will need to pass through the Dail. Considering the FF pro-life catholic-wing opposition my suspicion is that even if the 8th is repealed there will be strong pressure to water it down.

The alternative is that effectively you’re happy to stick your fingers in your ears about these hard cases, continue to export them to the UK so they’re “out of sight, out of mind for you” and let a generation pass us before we vote again.

Cowardly in my opinion if you are genuinely of the belief that some change should happen.

Why should I vote to repeal the only Constituational protection that there is for the right to life of the unborn, when I believe in the right to life of the unborn? The Supreme Court confirmed unanimously as recently as March of this year that the 8th Amendment is the only Constitutional protection that there is for the unborn. I believe that any termination is the taking of human life but that termination is justified and should be permitted in circumstances such as fatal foetal abnormalities, rape and cases where there is genuine risk of suicide. I don’t believe in abortion on demand though and I feel that the inevitable consequence of a Yes vote on Friday will be abortion on demand.

You have a choice on Friday to either effect change or to try and ensure the status quo remains. It’s as simple as that.

That’s the problem with real-life decisions, they’re often imperfect, require compromises and can push us into uncomfortable places.

Many many of your fellow citizens are plainly asking you for your support and to trust in their decisions when they are faced with probably the biggest real-life decisions of their life. So don’t be whining in the abstract about trusting politicians or parroting phraseology like “abortion on demand” or whatever other excuse you need to justify your No. Just man-up and state clearly that you don’t trust your fellow citizens and either way you’d like to impose your moral compass upon them.

In my opinion, much like No voters in the Divorce and Same-sex marriage referendum you’ll be on the wrong side of history and its a curious collection of fellow-travellers you’ll be getting into bed with but I’m sure you’ll be comfortable telling all and sundry for years to come that you were a proud No voter in the 2018 referendum.

Portumna_Bridge · May 23, 2018, 4:42pm

Will we have a moratorium on this tomorrow?

Horsebox · May 23, 2018, 5:12pm

I’m going on a killing spree if there isn’t.

Copper_pipe · May 23, 2018, 5:13pm

Sidney · May 23, 2018, 5:15pm

Babies, hopefully - although I might wait until Saturday night for to tie it neatly in with Liverpool being in a European Cup final.

Sidney · May 23, 2018, 5:17pm

Hanoi Niamh is wearing a Mayo away jersey.

This will be bigger than winning Sam could ever be.

Sidney · May 23, 2018, 5:25pm

DEV says YES to changing the constitution.

glenshane · May 23, 2018, 5:50pm

If you said you were going to vote no would the yes side buy you a ticket to fly to Hanoi?

Cicero_Dandi · May 23, 2018, 5:57pm

Absolute cretins looking for cars to beep their horns for yes.

I would love it, love it if the No side win.

iron_mike · May 23, 2018, 5:59pm

@Rocko

Any chance of imposing the same moratorium on this thread?

tazdedub · May 23, 2018, 6:31pm

The aftermath will be worse no matter which side wins, even though i think the no side has more crazies than the yes and would be more upset at the result.

Im expect @Cicero_Dandi to go into complete meltdown is the yes side win. Two weeks on the losing side will tip him over the edge.

gilgamboa · May 23, 2018, 6:33pm

And abortion was freely available in the last country he lived in and didnt cause him one iota of an issue on a day to day basis

gilgamboa · May 23, 2018, 6:34pm

What relation is he to Cora

gilgamboa · May 23, 2018, 6:36pm

Of course both sides would prefer if there was no abortion. The yes side just want the option available, everyone would have a strong preference if nobody had to go through with the trauma of it

gilgamboa · May 23, 2018, 6:38pm

He has missed this point on several occassions

gilgamboa · May 23, 2018, 6:39pm

He just said he thinks it should be dealt with by legislation which brings it squarely back to the politicians

glasagusban · May 23, 2018, 6:41pm

She really isn’t. I’d say she has never convinced anyone in her life. Even with a killer point just there she manages to fuck it up with her delivery.

anon26343222 · May 23, 2018, 6:55pm

I will be over at your moms around 7ish and Il vote then. She can abort on Monday morning then.

artfoley · May 23, 2018, 7:05pm

Agreed. She had an article about her cancer diagnosis which could’ve been a wonderfully powerful pro ssm article had she not projected her own prejudices and paranoia onto others.