AISHS Limerick v Kilkenny-The Game to unite the board

Sport
1121

[QUOTE=“Elvis Brandenberg Kremmen, post: 998332, member: 1624”]Oh my head!

First and foremost, you couldn’t fault the effort, commitment or drive, but ultimately we lost a game we should have won. I don’t buy this “better team lost” nonsense at all. The team that scores most deserves to win and fair play to Kilkenny, for all the talk of how we battled, they out-battled us in the end.

A few points…

  1. Is this a true reflection of our level? I heard people last night lamenting the use of substitutions but, in reality, what we have is what we have. We’re a little bit short in terms of 20-man quality to finish the deal. Some minors will come through, but it has to be gradual.

  2. Tom Ryan didn’t work out yesterday but we wouldn’t have been there if it wasn’t for his winning score v Tipp. Give the lad a break. It was the right decision to start Downes but it was equally correct to take him off when they did. It wasn’t going for him at all.

  3. I said on Saturday that if 4 of our six forwards fired, we’d go close. It gives me no pleasure to say this is exactly what happened. Mulcahy, Dowling, Hannon and (before he tired) Dodge were going well. Delighted for Hannon in particular. he was superb yesterday.

  4. The referee missed a few things but they were on both sides. JJ Delaney got away with a faceguard pull on Dowling that should have seen red but Dodge was steeped not to have walked also. The first yellow could easily have been a different colour and the trip on Power was a definite yellow card.

  5. Richie McCarthy, Seamus Hickey and Wayne McNamara are 3 of the best defenders in the country and all deserve All-Star nominations.

  6. They’ll all be hurting badly today as, deep down, they know they left it after them. The next few weeks are actually vital in terms of where this squad will go. A decision needs to be made quickly on whether that management will be kept on. I’m no fan of TJ Ryan but Beary, Lyons and Clarkey are first class and I’d leave them at it. The game wasn’t lost on the sideline yesterday. Preparation starts now.

  7. I hope that falcon comes back and eats the cunt from Croke Park who thought that was a good idea![/QUOTE]
    A fair and sensible summation.

People talking about subs can be quite brain dead in a hurling sense. Do they not think Ryan would love to throw in fresh legs of a high standard if he had them? Of course he would. The decision probably is that the lad on the field is better at 70% than a fresh lad off the bench.

Limerick played well, but lost a close game to a very good, but dying wasp of a, team. There was nothing obvious that could have been done differently.

1122

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 998335, member: 273”]Where did Allen get his game plan from dipshit?
Limerick had Donal O Grady Cork written all over them yesterday, its just a pity he didn’t get more time with them to refine them up front a bit more.[/QUOTE]
Oh so limerick support play came third hand from O’Grady cause he gave it to Allen and Allen gave it to us? :rolleyes:
You mug. We were muck under DOG, get that into your skull. Style and selections changed massively when he left and the season was turned around.

1123

Some of the Limerick backs need to cut out this habit of stopping up to strike the ball.

1124

The horrible thing is I love that fucking tune.

And now they’ve gone and ruined it for me.

1125

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 998339, member: 273”]A fair and sensible summation.

People talking about subs can be quite brain dead in a hurling sense. Do they not think Ryan would love to throw in fresh legs of a high standard if he had them? Of course he would. The decision probably is that the lad on the field is better at 70% than a fresh lad off the bench.

Limerick played well, but lost a close game to a very good, but dying wasp of a, team. There was nothing obvious that could have been done differently.[/QUOTE]
totally disagree, Limerick spent the last 15mins carrying ball to MF and then running out of ideas, it was crying out for a long delivery to a 2man FF line (one of who was Dowling) with Hannon and a fresh sub (Tobin should have been held until later) or even moving Mulcahy out who could run onto the ball which in those conditions broke each and every time. Limerick focused on applying their possession game to a circumstance (weather and KK tiredness) for which it was not suited, all KK were doing was concentrating on not fouling because they knew Limerick would not shoot and simply hadn’t the legs to run at them (Dowling, Downes, DOG). Bringing on Moran was a poor substitution, they needed runners in their HF line, taking Breen off was also premature IMO.

In those games, the slightest change in approach can have a huge bearing. Suggesting nothing could be done is nuts…everything could have been done…everything. This chance wont come around again. The KK FB line were clearly panicking in front of Herity but Limerick didn’t go for it. I am convinced that with Dowling on the edge of the square and with Mulcahy, Hannon, Breen and a fresh Tobin (last 10) and perhaps Allis or Browne , and even launching high hail marys with the simple instruction of follow it in and get on the break Limerick would have forced the scores, perhaps even the goal they needed. Instead they were harried and disposed in the middle third because they over carried. They made it easy

1126

exactly, either strike or keep going, James Ryan is a terror for it

1127

[QUOTE=“Kid Chocolate, post: 998350, member: 553”]totally disagree, Limerick spent the last 15mins carrying ball to MF and then running out of ideas, it was crying out for a long delivery to a 2man FF line (one of who was Dowling) with Hannon and a fresh sub (Tobin should have been held until later) or even moving Mulcahy out who could run onto the ball which in those conditions broke each and every time. Limerick focused on applying their possession game to a circumstance (weather and KK tiredness) for which it was not suited, all KK were doing was concentrating on not fouling because they knew Limerick would not shoot and simply hadn’t the legs to run at them (Dowling, Downes, DOG). Bringing on Moran was a poor substitution, they needed runners in their HF line, taking Breen off was also premature IMO.

In those games, the slightest change in approach can have a huge bearing. Suggesting nothing could be done is nuts…everything could have been done…everything. This chance wont come around again. The KK FB line were clearly panicking in front of Herity but Limerick didn’t go for it. I am convinced that with Dowling on the edge of the square and with Mulcahy, Hannon, Breen and a fresh Tobin (last 10) and perhaps Allis or Browne , and even launching high hail marys with the simple instruction of follow it in and get on the break Limerick would have forced the scores, perhaps even the goal they needed. Instead they were harried and disposed in the middle third because they over carried. They made it easy[/QUOTE]
What game were you a watching? Breen was poor, should have gone earlier. But I was only referring to subs, not style of play.
However, you want them to hit long ball down on top of a two man FF line facing JJ, Tyrell & Murphy?

You forgot to tell us about the time your auld lad dropped you on your head in the healthy thread the other day.

1128

Agree with that, could not understand why more ball was sent direct on top of Dowling. There was a lot of highish ball directed towards Mulcahy and an awful lot of running and trying to pick a nearby sensible pass and getting themselves into the perfect scoring position - probably sticking to the gameplan - whereas the conditions really called for hurling on their wits.

1129

Lads asking who did the weather suit. Limericks best spell in the second half came during the torrential downpour, once again showing that rain or heat, limerick play best in extreme weather conditions. But the weather suited kk more overall I felt. Especially at the end when they were defending almost Donegal style, the conditions pretty much precluded long range point taking so packing bodies back allowed them to hold onto a slender lead.

1130

[QUOTE=“Thrawneen, post: 998349, member: 129”]The horrible thing is I love that fucking tune.

And now they’ve gone and ruined it for me.[/QUOTE]

They should have played Up the Junction.

1131

@Kid Chocolate[/USER] and [USER=1557]@The Lopper correct. Richie Hogan said after that in those conditions they just focused on getting the ball in around the square as often as possible and hoped they won a break.

1132

but wouldnt that have taken a flipside and had Limerick had the lead then the weather would have suited them more than Limerick. The weather suited the team leading towards the end of the game, but that would be pretty obvious. I dont think the weather suited any team in particular, and despite some on here getting all worked up over some basic comments by Shefflington, the weather did level out the playing field.

1133

Like I said at half time it was curious stuff. Here are some stats.

http://cdn1.independent.ie/incoming/article30498469.ece/binary/ONLINE_LIMKIL1108.jpg

I’m not sure how much you can read into a match that is in monsoon conditions. Late on in the match Brian Hogan was coming out with the ball on the ground and it was one part hurling, one part field hockey.

Getting over the line is all that mattered. On a dry day who knows how it would have went.

Analysing the game, for what it is worth, I kind of have the same complaints that I’ve had with the team all year. They over played the ball in certain situations. Trying to go for short passes when they should just be getting rid of the ball. Trying to go for a fancy clearance and slicing it and losing half the distance as a result, or in the case of Richie Hogan, turning into a 58 degree LW, twice.
And then in others they underplayed it and took on Hollywood shots.
[LIST=1]
[]Michael Fennelly had a big overlap, would have been a tap-in for Larkin or Kelly had he passed but instead he duffed a shot wide.
[]Henry took on a shot late on with Richie Power free inside.
[]Richie Hogan had the whole side of the field free to himself when Buckley went for a long shot.
[]Conor Fogarty had 2 horrible efforts.
[/LIST]
That’s just off the top of my head. Assuming the stats there are right we had 16 scoring opportunities butchered. That wouldn’t include the laughable lack of red card incident. I don’t expect us to get all of them but we were not up to the usual standard. The weather is a secondary factor but bad decision making is the main one. This is highlighted in the pass completion % above. 53% is a diabolical number.

On the other hand Limerick were almost the exact opposite in the first half. I think they had one wide and that was from a block down on JJ as he scrambled to clear a goal chance. Their point taking accuracy was almost perfect. Then in the second half they had accuracy issues too, highlighting the difficulty in shooting into Hill 16 in such conditions and dealing with the pressure of trying to get over the line in a big match. Limerick had half the wides they had in the Munster Final in infinitely worse conditions. Which is quite admirable/unusual.

I put a spectacular commentator’s curse on Joey Holden yesterday. I was just mentioning how I thought he was playing excellently when he had that fresh air shot out on the wing that immediately led to a point. Doh.

I’m not sure whether I posted this before the match but Limerick have a selection problem with Downes. In my view he can only really play Full Forward as his point shooting is too suspect to play anywhere else. Then there are people who want to keep Dowling Full Forward. If that is what you do then you have to put Downes on the bench. And have him as a sub that comes on to run at the Full Back when they begin to tire. Playing Downes further out the field is not an option to me. The one shot that I remember him having yesterday was a long way short. Anyway, that’s a problem for another day.

A special shout out to the Events Manager at Croke Park who I’m assuming had a nervous breakdown at about 5pm yesterday. Three separate incidents in the one day.
[LIST=1]
[]The Falcon and the referees whistle debacle. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet. Good God.
[]The selection of a face in the crowd prize that was a total mess and had to be re-announced due to the confusion over the initial announcement.
[*]The interview of the Kilkenny Rose and the Limerick Rose that ran into the start of the extra time in the Minor. The first 5 seconds of the Minor replay coincided with the volume of their mics being gradually turned down.
[/LIST]

1134

I thought Brian Hogan was very solid down the meiddle for Kilkenny yesterday, got on plenty of ball and did a lot of tidying up, but like many others on the Kilkenny team his touch and striking seemed to be off. Granted you would make some allowances for the conditions but they just looked off the pace and did a lot of foostering and needing two or three attempts to rise balls. You would expect a better in August. Limerick on the otherhand were fairly sharp in their hurling at battled very well for breaks

1135

[QUOTE=“Kid Chocolate, post: 998350, member: 553”]totally disagree, Limerick spent the last 15mins carrying ball to MF and then running out of ideas, it was crying out for a long delivery to a 2man FF line (one of who was Dowling) with Hannon and a fresh sub (Tobin should have been held until later) or even moving Mulcahy out who could run onto the ball which in those conditions broke each and every time. Limerick focused on applying their possession game to a circumstance (weather and KK tiredness) for which it was not suited, all KK were doing was concentrating on not fouling because they knew Limerick would not shoot and simply hadn’t the legs to run at them (Dowling, Downes, DOG). Bringing on Moran was a poor substitution, they needed runners in their HF line, taking Breen off was also premature IMO.

In those games, the slightest change in approach can have a huge bearing. Suggesting nothing could be done is nuts…everything could have been done…everything. This chance wont come around again. The KK FB line were clearly panicking in front of Herity but Limerick didn’t go for it. I am convinced that with Dowling on the edge of the square and with Mulcahy, Hannon, Breen and a fresh Tobin (last 10) and perhaps Allis or Browne , and even launching high hail marys with the simple instruction of follow it in and get on the break Limerick would have forced the scores, perhaps even the goal they needed. Instead they were harried and disposed in the middle third because they over carried. They made it easy[/QUOTE]

I would agree with your view on the subs. The issue on the long ball is that long delivery was incredibly difficult in the conditions of the second half, it would have had to be from the Kilkenny 65 or further in to get at Herity and Kilkenny had flooded back for the last 20.

1136

[QUOTE=“cluaindiuic, post: 998380, member: 258”]Like I said at half time it was curious stuff. Here are some stats.

http://cdn1.independent.ie/incoming/article30498469.ece/binary/ONLINE_LIMKIL1108.jpg

I’m not sure how much you can read into a match that is in monsoon conditions. Late on in the match Brian Hogan was coming out with the ball on the ground and it was one part hurling, one part field hockey.

Getting over the line is all that mattered. On a dry day who knows how it would have went.

Analysing the game, for what it is worth, I kind of have the same complaints that I’ve had with the team all year. They over played the ball in certain situations. Trying to go for short passes when they should just be getting rid of the ball. Trying to go for a fancy clearance and slicing it and losing half the distance as a result, or in the case of Richie Hogan, turning into a 58 degree LW, twice.
And then in others they underplayed it and took on Hollywood shots.
[LIST=1]
[]Michael Fennelly had a big overlap, would have been a tap-in for Larkin or Kelly had he passed but instead he duffed a shot wide.
[]Henry took on a shot late on with Richie Power free inside.
[]Richie Hogan had the whole side of the field free to himself when Buckley went for a long shot.
[]Conor Fogarty had 2 horrible efforts.
[/LIST]
That’s just off the top of my head. Assuming the stats there are right we had 16 scoring opportunities butchered. That wouldn’t include the laughable lack of red card incident. I don’t expect us to get all of them but we were not up to the usual standard. The weather is a secondary factor but bad decision making is the main one. This is highlighted in the pass completion % above. 53% is a diabolical number.

On the other hand Limerick were almost the exact opposite in the first half. I think they had one wide and that was from a block down on JJ as he scrambled to clear a goal chance. Their point taking accuracy was almost perfect. Then in the second half they had accuracy issues too, highlighting the difficulty in shooting into Hill 16 in such conditions and dealing with the pressure of trying to get over the line in a big match. Limerick had half the wides they had in the Munster Final in infinitely worse conditions. Which is quite admirable/unusual.

I put a spectacular commentator’s curse on Joey Holden yesterday. I was just mentioning how I thought he was playing excellently when he had that fresh air shot out on the wing that immediately led to a point. Doh.

I’m not sure whether I posted this before the match but Limerick have a selection problem with Downes. In my view he can only really play Full Forward as his point shooting is too suspect to play anywhere else. Then there are people who want to keep Dowling Full Forward. If that is what you do then you have to put Downes on the bench. And have him as a sub that comes on to run at the Full Back when they begin to tire. Playing Downes further out the field is not an option to me. The one shot that I remember him having yesterday was a long way short. Anyway, that’s a problem for another day.

A special shout out to the Events Manager at Croke Park who I’m assuming had a nervous breakdown at about 5pm yesterday. Three separate incidents in the one day.
[LIST=1]
[]The Falcon and the referees whistle debacle. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet. Good God.
[]The selection of a face in the crowd prize that was a total mess and had to be re-announced due to the confusion over the initial announcement.
[*]The interview of the Kilkenny Rose and the Limerick Rose that ran into the start of the extra time in the Minor. The first 5 seconds of the Minor replay coincided with the volume of their mics being gradually turned down.
[/LIST]
[/QUOTE]

The PA system in Croke Park is also way too loud. And that centra ad should be banned.

1137

Downes will probably either only work at 14 or maybe 11. I still feel he could pose more of a goal threat at full-forward then Dowling does, but you couldn’t move Dowling from 14 this year in fairness. It’s not all positioning with Downes this year, his touch and accuracy have been a good bit off what we’ve seen before. He was the go-to man for Na P on the club championship run last year and through the winter and maybe the long season has affected him, hard to know really.

1138

He played 11 last year for Na P. But Hannon is the 11.

He has shown well at right corner but it did not run for him this year v Cork, Wexford & Kilkenny. It will come again.

Cian Lynch, Declan Hannon & Ronan Lynch will be a tidy HF line.

1139

there is nothing in Downes games that suggest he shouldn’t be moved out the field.
In fact I think the biggest issue he has is that he’s not the type of player (FF line) who lives for those 4-5 balls they get into their hand in a game. he is not a natural predator. He’s a little weak off his RHS which causes issues for him when pushed to the right (when playing RCF) and are magnified in the FF line. But he has huge pace, quick turn and a fantastic aerial presence, in my view the ideal replacement for DoG @ 11. The constant involvement would help him greatly

1140

[QUOTE=“ciarancareyshurlingarmy, post: 998397, member: 464”]He played 11 last year for Na P. But Hannon is the 11.

He has shown well at right corner but it did not run for him this year v Cork, Wexford & Kilkenny. It will come again.

Cian Lynch, Declan Hannon & Ronan Lynch will be a tidy HF line.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, I can’t see Downes shifting Hannon from 11 now. Has shown he has the quality before for club and county but did not run for him this year, still quite young.