The old 1A and 1B system which existed from 2012-2019 was brilliant. You could really see tangible progress when you won promotion to 1A. Like Clare 2012, Wexford 2017 or most notably Limerick 2018. The uneven number of teams must be an effort at giving everyone a rest week but actually adds to the volume of games as there’ll be 6 instead of 5.
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If it was two groups of six there would be far less chance of one of the smaller teams getting promoted as it would probably be one up /one down. If you cant finish second in a group of seven (and maybe just needing to take one scalp to do so) then you have no business getting promoted.
They’d be better off with league semi finals rather than that as you said.
Even if you had the top 3 in 1A and the top in 1B in two semi finals it would link it nicely together.
That old system was the optimum.
Waterford benefitted hugely from being in 1b in 2015. You could easily imagine a Waterford, Wexford or Dublin fucking up and failing to get out of 1b.
How the fuck do you make the teams from 8-12 any better though.
Sure with all the money and coaches Antrim got they’re still cat.
Westmeath beat Wexford last year fair enough but 8/10 we’d beat them handy. They’ve a tiny pool of hurlers. And they’re just not at the races.
Laois. A golden generation in the 80s but the odd star after that.
I’m not sure it’ll ever be more than 7 or 8 teams. And we’ll always be 7 or 8 the way we carry on.
@Cheasty nailed it a few years back. Trying to grow the game in these weaker counties is just doomed to failure.
Could you?
Surely Clare’s improvement was down to a gifted crop of youngsters arriving and Davy putting in place a professional set up with Paul Kinnerk being involved etc.
Surely Wexford’s improvement in 2017 was again due to Davy’s arrival and the sense of excitement and the laser focus it brought. He was the perfect appointment for them. For three years.
Surely Limerick’s improvement in 2018 was due to the arrival of a gifted crop of players and a manager who could harness them. And PJ’s money.
It wasn’t due to there being six teams in a league division rather than seven, or eight.
In hurling I don’t think the league system makes anywhere near the same impact on development or non-development of teams compared to how it can impact in football. This is mainly because of the lack of teams. Any tinkering with the league system in hurling is pretty much always tinkering for the sake of it. It’s like roundabouts in Galway being pointlessly replaced by traffic lights, and then being replaced by roundabouts again.
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It’s the Italy in the Six Nations quandary.
Italy just isn’t that interested in rugby.
The also ran counties in hurling just aren’t that interested, bar Offaly who have a recent history of winning All-Irelands.
If you throw them in with the big boys, they might have an initial burst of enthusiasm, put in the odd respectable performance, then they get blown away on a given day, and blown away again, and again, and again. And they get sick of that, get disillusioned and stop trying. Players aren’t bothered and they drift away.
If you don’t throw them in with the big boys, they’ll get absolutely slaughtered if they ever happen to meet one of the big boys.
You can forget about Westmeath, Carlow, Kildare, Kerry. They will never make the grade.
Antrim and Laois will always be Antrim and Laois. They will always be also rans. Dublin will always be Dublin - the PSG of hurling without the glamour and the supporters.
There are nine hurling counties.
Offaly is a hurling county because the Offaly public see themselves as a hurling county. That’s what makes the difference. Offaly will win a hurling All-Ireland again before Dublin do.
It all comes down to numbers and interest:
Cork have 80-100 hurling clubs (50-60 of a decent standard)
Tipp have 60 (40-45 of a decent standard)
Kilkenny have 40 (35/36 of a decent standard)
Galway have 40
Limerick have 40
Clare have 35
Wexford have 35
Waterford have 30
Dublin have 20-25
Offaly have 15
Laois have 10
Antrim have 10
Kerry have 10
Carlow/Westmeath/Meath/Kildare have 4-10.
Also it must be noted in areas like East Galway, North Tipp, Kilkenny etc hurling is the only show in town. Young lads spend twice as many hours practicing the core skills and this adds up.
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Oh undoubtedly it was Davy related but beating Limerick and Galway in successive weekends in February 2017 was a real marker of said progress. That was supplemented by a memorable Leinster semi-final victory over Kilkenny in June of that year.
Wexford placed such an emphasis on staying in 1A during those years that they became known as a February hurling team. Being promoted to 1A in 2017 felt big at the time and created a feel good factor. The league ceased to exist as a competition of note when they reverted back to two watered down groups of 6 and a 12 team Division 1 in 2020.
Offaly didn’t win a Leinster for 50 odd years or something and won 4 all Irelands in the 80s and 90s.
Wexford’s league victories in 2017 that built momentum could still have been achieved under the current format were Davy starting off now.
I think the provincial round robins have done more to kill off interest in the league than any other single thing.
But there’s also a sort of Carabao Cup/FA Cup-ification of secondary competitions across all sports really.
Like back in the day you’d get good crowds for Railway Cups and Grounds Tournaments and the likes. That stopped. The League itself is going the same way now. That process started in the late 90s I think.
People are interested in events now and the National Hurling League has very little event potential whereas the Munster championship does.
The people who allowed the split season happen have a lot to answer for here. It’s allowed the bigger county teams go semi professional and hammer home their economic advantages over the weaker counties.
As I pointed out a straight knock out championship gives much more of a chance of an upset and gives the weaker counties a punching chance.
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I doubt Dublin even have 20.
Probably less than 10 (albeit superclubs) who take Hurling remotely seriously.
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There is a ball of clubs on the Northside who take hurling seriously but the issue is they are too close together - if you had half the teams you would have a better standard as a lot of these clubs have 5 or 6 really nice hurlers and then a drop off
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They should re introduce the amalgamated teams for championship again .
Dublin and Kildare will come forward in hirling surely, there’s so many people for whom hurling is their first sport settled in Dublin now.
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Kildare appear as if they might be starting to drop off again a bit, but perhaps that was a blip.
Be a pity if so, parts of Laois where hurlimg is unquestionably first sport as well, just populations are small. Big commuter towns for Dublin like Portarlington and Portlaoise will swell that with people coming out of Dublin and up from other places.
Hurling is starting to thrive in Port oddly enough, as you said blow ins driving it. But what they will do when it comes to adult, nobody knows. I heard one rumor of them going to a mid size town to hurl in the hurling area of the county. A disaster if that happens for all concerned in my opinion.