Arsenal

To use a phrase from Mick Wallace the Roman Abramovic of Wellington Bridge - orgasmic.

Funniest part was when Arsenal booted the ball long into the corner late in the second half and the Liverpool fans booed for the long ball tactic, what they didn’t see was Alliaidiere racing down the wing and then skinning Pauleta leaving him on his arse before laying it off to the Beast for his fourth goal. Magic.

LFC is a joke and what really annoyed me was when the fans started singing You’ll Never Walk Alone when 3-6 down.

pretty awful defending last night.

i am amazed by the majority of liverpool fans who support Benitez. i cant believe it, hes a clown

Sums you up BT. The thing which makes Liverpool fans so special is that they will still cheer their team on when they are losing - You’ll never walk alone and all that. That is the kind of credibility that you get when you win 18 leagues and 5 European Cups.

Its time for some facts here - Liverpool have been knocked out of the two cups that they are not interested in. Big Deal. The team selection last night showed that. If Arsenal are happy to win the FA Cup and Carling Cup in a season then good for them but we have bigger fish to fry

I agree completely with the second paragraph Farmer: though the performance itself was embarrassing I presume (I was playing football so didn’t see the game) ultimately it doesn’t matter. I remember at the start of this season a Celtic fan ran onto the pitch and threw his scarf at Strachan during our pre-season defeat to United with both teams fielding second string elevens. What a fool!

On the first paragraph I think you’re contradicting yourself. Either your credibility comes from the trophies Liverpool have won, or it comes from the fact that they sing when they are losing. If you’re claiming that they only sing when they’re losing because they’ve won loads of stuff before then I don’t think that makes them out to be particularly great fans at all.

Was trying to make to points in one there. BT was giving out about the fans singing when they are losing when you should commend that trait in fans particularly when the club’s anthem is ‘You’ll never walk alone’. I was also taking a swipe at him when he called LFC ‘a joke’ when they have won 18 league titles and 5 European Cups.

Saw Benetiz has come out today apologising to the fans. He better not let it get to the team because we are on a good run now and this has the ability to shake confidence, Of course it is always disappointing to concede 6 goals at Anfield havin just build up the ‘fortress’ mentality again but as long as we don’t let it influence our League and CL form then frankly I couldn’d care less

BT pisses me off. He claims not to be an Arsenal fan but likes the way they play football. He starts giving it all that to me last night when they won but then hides when they lose. I have a bet on with him for 100 bucks that Pool will finish higher in the league than Arsenal. Bets with forum members in the past have been a bit too close for comfort. Rock you still owe me a fiver

Fair enough, thought the league titles and European Cups were attempts to give credibility to the fans, not the club.

I’ll get you that fiver next time I see you.

Always disappointing? Last time was 1930. Agree with all your points though Farmer.

Don’t come on here pretending you weren’t gutted in 1930 Clakey.

Its ok Rocko. I mean I know things are a bit tight for you at the moment what with your new car and stuff but I can wait until you get your SSIA - I’m a reasonable man

Benitez gone!

From the Liverpool Echo:

Breaking news - 11:52am
Dan Jones

In amazing scenes at their Melwood training ground this morning it has been confirmed that Rafa Benitez has resigned as Liverpool manager with immediate effect. The resignation comes in the wake of Liverpool’s embarrassing 6-3 home defeat by Arsenal in the Carling Cup last night - Liverpool’s worst result at Anfield since 1914.

The decision of Benitez to call time on his Anfield career will come as a major shock to Liverpool fans who have been firm in their support of the former Valencia coach despite the Reds’ inconsistent displays this season.

With the humbling at the hands of Arsenal coming in a competition that Benitez regards as being of secondary importance it is believed that the manager, who led Liverpool to Champions League glory in 2005, was shaken by the criticism he received both from supporters after the final whistle and subsequently in the media overnight.

It is now anticipated that Benitez will take up an attractive role as Michael Jackson’s tour manager in the near future. Though nobody in the Jackson camp was available to comment this morning the reports coming out of his base in Dubai suggest that the legendary pop star was thoroughly impressed by the Spaniard’s ability to oversee a home spanking by 11 kids.

More news to follow shortly.

The team selection showed they weren’t interested - what about Arsenal’s team selection?

And Farmer, I would love to call myself an Arsenal fan but it wouldn’t be right, I hated the Arsenal teams of Geoarge Graham’s era and to call myself a fan now would be hypocritcal.

Liverpool are a joke at the moment, I never implied anything about the history of the club. Looking at it without red tinted glasses, for a club of their stature the ast 15 years have been a disgrace. Call the CL win in 2005 what you want, I see it as a pure fluke a la Greece in Euro 2004. As far as I can see the club is making very little progress, fair enough they finished 9 points off the top last year, but most people are forgetting that Liverool were never anywhere near the title race and Chelsea took the foot off the gas big style when the title was in the bag.

Just to confirm to the forum I have also taken on a 100euro bet wth ClarkeyCat on the Gunners vs The Pool. My advice would be to start accruing now boys and avoid the big hit in May. Probably April actually.

Great article from Paul Doyle summing up exactly what I was thinking about the pathetic fans singing:

Fans get what they deserve

Here’s the unpalatable truth for anyone who admires what Liverpool Football Club once was: the club’s fans deserve to dine on the steaming dung they were served up last night. Because as a crowd (not as individuals), they’re dumb. Maybe lovably simple like Jason McAteer. Possibly so ostentatiously, in-your-face stupid that they inspire not laughter, not solidarity, not even sympathy, but a desire to avoid them at all costs … or exploit them for all their worth. Here’s why:

Midway through the second half of last night’s shambles, Liverpool fans began booming out ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ with such gusto that anyone tuning in at that precise moment would have assumed the home side were comfortably ahead. But, of course, they weren’t. They were being rogered 5-1. Once again, then, the Liverpool faithful, like the loyal sheep of certain other clubs, were wallowing in failure. And this morning many of them smugly expect everyone to congratulate them for that by agreeing that they’re “the greatest fans in the world”, or some such swill.

Belting out your devotion to a club when it is, yet again, blatantly underachieving is not being a “true fan” any more than cheering on an alcoholic every time he downs a jug of vodka is being a true friend. Like a man suffering from an addiction, a once-great club hooked on mediocrity and half-success needs a mighty metaphorical boot in the hole. It needs to be shaken out of its self-defeating stupor. Sure, when you see signs of a willingness to get better, then rousing outpourings of affection may be appropriate, but until that point is reached, you’ve got to be cruel to be kind (like I’m being here, see). Grard Houllier inched towards recovery and was embraced. Then he lost the plot and was indulged. Fan desertion should have: a) forced him to change his ways; or :wink: forced the directors to bin him sooner than 18 months after he’d passed his expiry date.

Similarly, Rafael Bentez initially suggested he was the man to restore Liverpool to greatness, most obviously when he somehow led them to Champions League triumph in 2005 despite initiallly botching his selection and tactics in the final. Greatness doesn’t mean sporadic success in cups, it means sustained domination of leagues. And in that sense, Bentez has been going backwards since his inspired half-time changes in Istanbul.

So let’s be clear: rather than pledge their allegiance to the unacceptable, Liverpool fans should have walked out en masse shortly after half-time in yesterday’s debacle. And made it plain that until they’re convinced that Liverpool could win the Premiership (nothing less should do) they will not be paying into Anfield, nor buying replica jerseys, official merchandise or Bentez’s guff about not having enough money to rival the big three (when you’ve spunked 6.7m on Arsenal reject Jermaine Pennant, 7m on one season wonder(ish) Peter Crouch and oh-my-god-how-bloody-much?! on busy-but-aimless strikers such as Craig Bellamy and Dirk Kuyt, do you really deserve to be entrusted with even more funds, even if they were available? Certain Dubai fat cats may well be asking themselves that question right now).

If there is anybody other than away fans at Anfield’s next game, then Liverpool deserve another tonking.

All of the above is, of course, equally applicable to many fans of Newcastle, Manchester City and every other band of fools who regularly boast about filling their ground to watch overpaid underperformers. At best, you’re the drunk following the blind. At worst, you’re fodder for the likes of Freddy Shepherd.

Oh and “bigger fish to fry”???

What’s that? Finishing in the Top 4 and getting knocked out of the CL by Barca?

Etoo is almost back and Liverpool are cack!!! :-* :-* :-* :-*

I am going to do a Rocko and rip that stupid article apart paragraph by paragraph. And BT you have never backed up any argument you are ever in so I suggest you start

Liverpool 3 - 6 Arsenal.

Liverpool 1 - 3 Arsenal.

Case closed.

Fans get what they deserve

Here’s the unpalatable truth for anyone who admires what Liverpool Football Club once was: the club’s fans deserve to dine on the steaming dung they were served up last night. Because as a crowd (not as individuals), they’re dumb. Maybe lovably simple like Jason McAteer. Possibly so ostentatiously, in-your-face stupid that they inspire not laughter, not solidarity, not even sympathy, but a desire to avoid them at all costs … or exploit them for all their worth. Here’s why:

Midway through the second half of last night’s shambles, Liverpool fans began booming out ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ with such gusto that anyone tuning in at that precise moment would have assumed the home side were comfortably ahead. But, of course, they weren’t. They were being rogered 5-1. Once again, then, the Liverpool faithful, like the loyal sheep of certain other clubs, were wallowing in failure. And this morning many of them smugly expect everyone to congratulate them for that by agreeing that they’re “the greatest fans in the world”, or some such swill.

I could wager that each and everyone of those fans were bitterly disappointed having conceded 6 goals at Anfield. In fact many will feel that Liverpool are underachieving. Did he talk to any? Does he know what they feel individually? So they are not dumb. The reason that they boomed out ‘You Never Walk Alone’ is because they are Liverpool fans and Liverpool’s anthem is made for scenarios like this. ‘At the end of a storm there’s a golden sky’. They are prepared to wait for it whereas others would probabaly jump ship and support Chelsea. And is ‘failure’ being beaten in a competition where you fielded a weakened team?

Belting out your devotion to a club when it is, yet again, blatantly underachieving is not being a “true fan” any more than cheering on an alcoholic every time he downs a jug of vodka is being a true friend. Like a man suffering from an addiction, a once-great club hooked on mediocrity and half-success needs a mighty metaphorical boot in the hole. It needs to be shaken out of its self-defeating stupor. Sure, when you see signs of a willingness to get better, then rousing outpourings of affection may be appropriate, but until that point is reached, you’ve got to be cruel to be kind (like I’m being here, see). Grard Houllier inched towards recovery and was embraced. Then he lost the plot and was indulged. Fan desertion should have: a) forced him to change his ways; or :wink: forced the directors to bin him sooner than 18 months after he’d passed his expiry date.

See above point. I think it is being a true fan. Again this fool doesn’t look past the fact that many fans will realise the underachievment and they are not happy about it. But what has made this club in the past is the words of ‘You Never Walk Alone’. Think Hillsboro etc. Are you suggesting that they give up the fundamental principles of the club that was in your own words ‘once-great’ because they lose in the Carling Cup to Arsenal? As for the Houllier argument he never edged towards greatness - his highest league finsih was 80 points, Benetiz got 83 last year. If the fans are stupid then is it not to the detriment of the club that voicing their opinion would make Houillier change his ways. Past his expiry date? He never had an expiry date. Manager’s don’t have expiry dates. Houillier was never a good manager. And how could he suddenly change? Did he wake up in the morning and suddenly he was a bad manager. Who is this fool?

Similarly, Rafael Bentez initially suggested he was the man to restore Liverpool to greatness, most obviously when he somehow led them to Champions League triumph in 2005 despite initiallly botching his selection and tactics in the final. Greatness doesn’t mean sporadic success in cups, it means sustained domination of leagues. And in that sense, Bentez has been going backwards since his inspired half-time changes in Istanbul.

This guy gets better! How on earth have Liverpool gone backways since 2005? If greatness is measured by dominance in the league (I don’t think that it is exclusively - there needs to be European success there as well - but it is the primary indicator) then they have gone forward. They lost 14 games in 2005 and finished with 50 odd points. Last season they had 6 defeats and finished on 83! Fool. And how did he somehow lead them? They beat every team that was put in front of them.

So let’s be clear: rather than pledge their allegiance to the unacceptable, Liverpool fans should have walked out en masse shortly after half-time in yesterday’s debacle. And made it plain that until they’re convinced that Liverpool could win the Premiership (nothing less should do) they will not be paying into Anfield, nor buying replica jerseys, official merchandise or Bentez’s guff about not having enough money to rival the big three (when you’ve spunked 6.7m on Arsenal reject Jermaine Pennant, 7m on one season wonder(ish) Peter Crouch and oh-my-god-how-bloody-much?! on busy-but-aimless strikers such as Craig Bellamy and Dirk Kuyt, do you really deserve to be entrusted with even more funds, even if they were available? Certain Dubai fat cats may well be asking themselves that question right now).

Walk out of a Carling Cup quarter final and give up what the club is about? Fuck off you clown. Does the fact that Pennant is an Arsenal reject make him useless? How many clubs rejected Roy Keane initially? Crouch was never a one season wonder - he has always been shite. In todays markets 6m is not a lot of money for Bellamy who has done reasonably well. Kuyt has been an excellent signing at 10m - he has scored 7 goals in the Premiership and numerous assists

If there is anybody other than away fans at Anfield’s next game, then Liverpool deserve another tonking.

All of the above is, of course, equally applicable to many fans of Newcastle, Manchester City and every other band of fools who regularly boast about filling their ground to watch overpaid underperformers. At best, you’re the drunk following the blind. At worst, you’re fodder for the likes of Freddy Shepherd.

Who does that idiot write for BT?

Farmer he writes for the Guardian online - don’t think he writes for the print version. I was going to avoid copying and pasting that article to the site because it’s a load of shite. The argument that Liverpool fans embraced and indulged Houllier is pure nonsense. It’s not just a wrong opinion which is forgivable, but it’s factually wrong.

I actually know the guy who wrote it a small bit. I know his sister quite well and her boyfriend who is a mate of mine. I have a feeling he reads this site from time to time and so I don’t want to be too critical of Paul Doyle but that article is horseshit frankly. And I think my mate would think that too if he read it. If it makes you feel any better not many people on the Guardian’s blog agreed with it, and mostly not Liverpool supporters,

From www.guardian.co.uk - another quality read:

Disillusion and confusion bear the hallmark of Bentez

Rafael Bentez looked and sounded like a man in deep shock, and it was hard not to turn away as he kept repeating the most meaningless explanation for defeat ever invented: what can you do, he said, when you go four goals down before half-time? But it is to his credit that he did not duck the obligation to appear before the television cameras late on Tuesday night, in the immediate aftermath of Liverpool’s worst result at Anfield in living memory.

Only once since he arrived at the club have his players flirted with a humiliation of similar proportions. In May 2005 they went three goals down to AC Milan in the first 45 minutes in Istanbul, and never in the 50-year history of the European Cup final had a team looked so comprehensively outclassed. But from the depths of the club’s history Steven Gerrard and his team-mates summoned a spirit that enabled them to break their opponents’ will.

Bentez took a winner’s medal, although the victory on the night had little to do with him. But if he could not claim much credit for that success, the manager was certainly responsible for this week’s disaster. Over the course of 90 astonishing minutes, the principal flaws of his stewardship emerged with terrifying clarity.

First came his insistence, true to his policy of rotation, on making nine changes to the team who had lost to the same opponents three days earlier, retaining only Steven Gerrard, the captain, and the No2 goalkeeper, Jerzy Dudek, who had given an uncertain performance on Saturday. Even though that first defeat by Arsenal had removed them from one of the two domestic knockout competitions, Bentez evidently did not take the other tournament seriously enough to contest it with the best available players.

If the old League Cup has any purpose, it is to provide clubs with an extra chance of winning at least one trophy in a season - something that in the past has brought comfort to the staff and supporters of the mightiest teams in the land, including Brian Clough’s Nottingham Forest and Sir Alex Ferguson’s Manchester United. Out of the FA Cup, out of contention once again in the Premiership and facing the formidable prospect of a meeting with Barcelona in the Champions League, Liverpool have now been made to pay an extra price for their manager’s priorities.

When Arsne Wenger sent out a team packed with teenaged reserves on Tuesday, it was part of a long-term strategy with a twofold purpose. Wenger is using the Carling Cup to satisfy the desire of his talented youngsters for first-team action, and to temper their talents in the flame of real competition. As a result he could well become the first English club manager to win a senior knockout competition with what amounts to his 2nd XI.

Not everyone applauds Wenger’s reluctance to put his trust in young English players. The success of his approach, however, ensures a prosperous future for the club. He saw a problem, and he fixed it with a radical solution requiring considerable faith. All one hears from Liverpool are complaints about products of the Melwood academy, and vague suggestions that it is all the fault of Grard Houllier, who left the club 2 years ago.

The second major accusation levelled against Bentez arises from his habit of bringing to the club players who lack the sort of quality that would restore Liverpool’s eminence. Xabi Alonso and Luis Garca may have matched the contributions of Didier Hamann and Vladimir Smicer to the Houllier era, and the injury to Mohamed Sissoko came at an unfortunate time, but if Peter Crouch has a place in Liverpool’s history then it is surely only as a modern equivalent of the hapless Tony Hateley, while Jermaine Pennant, Mark Gonzlez, Fbio Aurlio and Craig Bellamy belong one rung down the Premiership ladder.

And then, on Tuesday night, came a display by Gabriel Paletta that made one wonder on what evidence Bentez based his decision to spend 2m to bring the 20-year-old centre back from the Argentinian club Banfield. Speed, strength, composure, positional sense, anticipation, technique - Paletta appeared to lack the lot as he allowed Jrmie Aliadire, who made little impression during loan spells with Celtic, West Ham and Wolves, to run rings around him. Bentez spends a lot of time explaining to the world that he does not enjoy the resources available to Ferguson or Jose Mourinho, but the same could be said of Wenger. The successor to Shankly and Paisley, however, shows few signs of being able to make the best use of what he has, and Tuesday night may come to be seen as the defeat that finally undermined his regime.

You could only feel sorry for Danny Guthrie, a 19-year-old academy graduate given his second start of the season on the right of Liverpool’s midfield.

Toiling amid the rubble, he still managed to show flashes of deftness and invention. Had he been wearing an Arsenal shirt on Tuesday night, we might have been hailing the arrival of a world-beater.

Another one for you Farmer - looks like everyone is getting on Rafa’s back. Rafaloution my arse.

Benitez passes buck with more conviction than Reds passed ball

Thursday January 11th 2007

THE inquest opened into Liverpool’s humiliating Carling Cup defeat by Arsenal yesterday with manager Rafael Benitez blaming the Anfield board for a lack of investment in young players and Jerzy Dudek excusing his own lamentable display on a lack of match sharpness.

Between them, they passed the buck with more conviction than the team had passed the ball during the club’s heaviest home defeat for 77 years. Recriminations had commenced long before it was announced Luis Garcia will miss the rest of the season and for Dudek, out of contract in the summer, plus the Academy graduates for whom self-belief is essential at this stage in their development, Lee Peltier and Danny Guthrie, the consequences may be far-reaching.

As they could be for Liverpool’s prospective new owners, Dubai International Capital, who might be in a position to officially commence their 400m takeover of the club from chairman David Moores next week.

Until yesterday Benitez had kept in check his frustration at the present board’s inability and occasional reluctance to secure his primary transfer targets but the Spaniard has never disguised his irritation at the production line at the Liverpool Youth Academy or the club’s failure to follow the Arsenal system of investing heavily in young talent around the globe.

Benitez, his prospect of a trophy now resting on a Champions League date with Barcelona, insisted; "The conclusion that worries me is Arsenal could pick nine reserves and score six goals at Anfield. We had seven players with first team experience and could not win. There is a lesson there for the whole of our club.

"If you want to compete at the top level you must be able to spend a lot of money not only on your first team, but on the young players and reserves. Arsenal spent 4 million on Abou Diaby, 4m on Denilson, 8m on Theo Walcott and Baptista is a 22m player. They have been working for ten years to build a strong squad and we have been working for two. My scouting department has done an excellent job but sometimes we go too slowly as a club to make the signings we need and when we do there is not a lot of money.

“Today we are signing a young Italian goalkeeper on loan (Sampdoria’s Daniele Padelli) with an option for later. We have also been working for many weeks to sign the young Scot James McCarthy. These are the deals we are doing because we want to build for the future but without spending money it is difficult.”

Though Benitez identified Walcott and the Brazilian teenager Denilson as worthy recruits before they committed their education to The Emirates Stadium, it is fanciful to believe they would be playing with the same technique and commitment to attack as they displayed on Tuesday had they opted for Liverpool ahead of Arsene Wenger.

That debate may be hypothetical, but what is beyond dispute is that Benitez has been lavished with comparable funds to Wenger since his arrival in 2004 - swelled by the riches from his outstanding Champions League triumph while Arsenal were dedicated to building a new stadium - and Liverpool were outclassed because their manager opted to make nine changes to his side. The bottom line.

“I used Momo Sissoko in the Carling Cup and we lost him for four months. Now we have lost Garcia for the rest of the season and (Mark) Gonzalez and (Stephen) Warnock are also injured,” said Benitez. “What is more important? The Premiership, Champions League or Carling Cup? If Arsenal can play nine reserves and score six at Anfield, people should be asking why is this. It’s not because of one game, it’s because of many reasons.”

Dudek, meanwhile, was also quick to defend his part in Liverpool’s first six goal reverse at Anfield since 1930. “I’m devastated,” he said. “I’ve never had a game like that before. Almost every shot went in. I just wanted to take my opportunity and build some confidence, but it is difficult. The last time I had played at Anfield until Saturday was in March. For a goalkeeper you can use experience, but you can’t build confidence in training.”

Andy Hunter

http://www.unison.ie/

You know what Brian - I am not going to waste my time reading them after the muck that you put up yesterday. What I will say is that it is typical of the British media to get on Rafa’s back when they lose in the Carling Cup - they are so clueless