[quote=âRockoâ]Completely different situation in England. They have free health care (that works). Prescriptions cost a fiver. Think GPs are mostly free.
They also have lower VAT, cheaper prices in general, better rent allowances etc.
Our welfare state system doesnât extend beyond the dole in many cases so it needs to be far higher than it is in England.[/quote]
Rocko if I quit my job now. Drew the dole and got my rent allowance Iâd be better off than I am working. Is that right? No. Dole should be max 150.
[quote=âRockoâ]Completely different situation in England. They have free health care (that works). Prescriptions cost a fiver. Think GPs are mostly free.
They also have lower VAT, cheaper prices in general, better rent allowances etc.
Our welfare state system doesnât extend beyond the dole in many cases so it needs to be far higher than it is in England.[/quote]
If you are on the dole here you qualify for a medical card so all those things are free too.
If you are on the dole here you can apply for a rent allowance of 82 euro per week - This is almost free rent, lads might have to put a tenner or twenty to it.
Iâm not really arguing that we should lower it like in England, Iâm just saying that there is an expectation here in Eire that you should still have a decent enough standard of living while on the dole. You shouldnât. You should have it tough.
Lets take a polish bird working in SuperMacs or Donkey Fords or somewhere. A 40 hour week @ minmum wage of 8.65 an hour is 346 euro per week gross. Take off lets say 26 for deductions like income levy/prsi and she is left with 320. She still needs to pay her rent and has no medical card. Rent of 100 euro leaves her 220 to live on for the week after working 40 hours.
Lets take an Irish lad who has no interest in finding work. He gats 204 euro dole and 82 rent allowance. Say he pays 100 rent as well so thats 18 gone off his dole. Thats 186 to live on for the week. He has the medical card in the back pocket and can stay in bed until lunchtime all week every week.
The worker on the minimum wage is better off by (220 - 186) 34 euro per week than the long term unemployed waster. Not even a euro better for every hour she works. And no medical card.
Not necessarily. Thereâs plenty wrong in the UK and I donât see them as the model solution but that was the comparison that was made. What is certainly true is that they have a far bigger problem with institutionalised welfare recipients than we do. There are entire towns of people on benefits in England but itâs obviously not as simple as arguing that their dole is too high. Itâs not, itâs a systemic thing.
But you have to consider the full parameters of the situation. Rather than just blindly complaining about the dole and cutting it to a lower level, we need to consider protecting the vulnerable while at the same time reforming the dole so that it doesnât act as a catch-all solution to the problem of unemployment and associated poverty.
The dole canât be cut by that much because youâre hurting people who can afford to lose twenty quid a week no bother but youâre also hurting people who canât afford to lose a tenner each week. Throw in cuts to childrenâs allowance and you see the picture that in fact weâre moving towards punishing the people who are most dependent on social welfare and are most deserving of it.
Na just taking the cost of living in Dooblin out of the equation Iâd be a richer man. With two hundred lids in my pocket, rent covered etc and not having to leave the bed.
i believe we have one of the lower dole amounts in europe- can someone who doesnt see himself as a little englander confirm- why do the anglophiles always compare us with the brits or have i answered my own question?
Its your choice to live and work in dublin, you canât add in your standard of living.
TT has outlined it well there, in Ireland (realistically) you need to be earning 12-15 euro an hour and have prospects for it to be worth your while bothering at all.
Well take away rent, transport costs,medical care, the minimum 10% premium you pay for everything in Dublin then it is the case.
If I moved down home Iâd get a savage gaff for 80 lids a week. 200 euro in my back pocket. Thats nearly 30 a day. Sure when a fella doesnât get up till twelve heâd live like a king on that.
What i donât agree with TT on is he wants people âto have it toughâ if they are the dole as well, this is wrong, the country should be aiming to be in a position that the standard of living is good for everyone, but it is just better for those who have a job and who work hard.
[quote=âtipptops*â]If you are on the dole here you qualify for a medical card so all those things are free too.
If you are on the dole here you can apply for a rent allowance of 82 euro per week - This is almost free rent, lads might have to put a tenner or twenty to it.
Iâm not really arguing that we should lower it like in England, Iâm just saying that there is an expectation here in Eire that you should still have a decent enough standard of living while on the dole. You shouldnât. You should have it tough.
Lets take a polish bird working in SuperMacs or Donkey Fords or somewhere. A 40 hour week @ minmum wage of 8.65 an hour is 346 euro per week gross. Take off lets say 26 for deductions like income levy/prsi and she is left with 320. She still needs to pay her rent and has no medical card. Rent of 100 euro leaves her 220 to live on for the week after working 40 hours.
Lets take an Irish lad who has no interest in finding work. He gats 204 euro dole and 82 rent allowance. Say he pays 100 rent as well so thats 18 gone off his dole. Thats 186 to live on for the week. He has the medical card in the back pocket and can stay in bed until lunchtime all week every week.
The worker on the minimum wage is better off by (220 - 186) 34 euro per week than the long term unemployed waster. Not even a euro better for every hour she works. And no medical card.[/quote]
There is absolutely no comparison between the medical cards in Ireland and the proper free health care they have in the UK. Thereâs a difference between a medical card and health expenses which hugely restrict the amount of prescriptions you can claim back here.
Iâm not saying that unemployment benefit here doesnât need reform, Iâm just saying that comparisons with the UK donât stack up when you look at their other benefits and when you look at the evidence of the problems they have with insitutionalised recipients.
Youâre also ignoring the PRSI benefits built up by the Polish lass in the example above which would allow her to receive higher social welfare benefits if she was laid off.
[quote=âJulio Geordioâ]Well take away rent, transport costs,medical care, the minimum 10% premium you pay for everything in Dublin then it is the case.
If I moved down home Iâd get a savage gaff for 80 lids a week. 200 euro in my back pocket. Thats nearly 30 a day. Sure when a fella doesnât get up till twelve heâd live like a king on that.[/quote]
This is all your own choice though. The people on the dole in Dublin also have that 10% premium. If you lived at home youâd make less money, thats the way it works.
[quote=âRockoâ]
Youâre also ignoring the PRSI benefits built up by the Polish lass in the example above which would allow her to receive higher social welfare benefits if she was laid off.[/quote]
[quote=âcaoimhaoinâ]Its your choice to live and work in dublin, you canât add in your standard of living.
TT has outlined it well there, in Ireland (realistically) you need to be earning 12-15 euro an hour and have prospects for it to be worth your while bothering at all.[/quote]
Are you having a laugh? Iâm only in Dublin because thereâs no work at home
We have unemployment benefit and unemployment allowance. The first is for people who have worked and have been laid off, the second is for people who just âchooseâ to go on the Dole in the example above.
You get more welfare benefits ultimately from having worked. Itâs not as simple as saying that youâre only getting a euro for every hour you worked - youâre paying into a PRSI scheme that will ultimately benefit you in the long run.
We have unemployment benefit and unemployment allowance. The first is for people who have worked and have been laid off, the second is for people who just âchooseâ to go on the Dole in the example above.
You get more welfare benefits ultimately from having worked. Itâs not as simple as saying that youâre only getting a euro for every hour you worked - youâre paying into a PRSI scheme that will ultimately benefit you in the long run.[/quote]
Ah Jesus Rocko you saying that it should be peoples long term ambition to end up on the dole
[quote=âRockoâ]Not necessarily. Thereâs plenty wrong in the UK and I donât see them as the model solution but that was the comparison that was made. What is certainly true is that they have a far bigger problem with institutionalised welfare recipients than we do. There are entire towns of people on benefits in England but itâs obviously not as simple as arguing that their dole is too high. Itâs not, itâs a systemic thing.
But you have to consider the full parameters of the situation. Rather than just blindly complaining about the dole and cutting it to a lower level, we need to consider protecting the vulnerable while at the same time reforming the dole so that it doesnât act as a catch-all solution to the problem of unemployment and associated poverty.
The dole canât be cut by that much because youâre hurting people who can afford to lose twenty quid a week no bother but youâre also hurting people who canât afford to lose a tenner each week. Throw in cuts to childrenâs allowance and you see the picture that in fact weâre moving towards punishing the people who are most dependent on social welfare and are most deserving of it.[/quote]
you want to protect the people on the dole(the vulnerable you call them), you include in this the long term dole scroungers who have no incentive to work and therefor never will, i cant accept these folk are vulnerable no matter what circumstances they find themselves in, but maintaining their welfare forever more achieves what?
We have unemployment benefit and unemployment allowance. The first is for people who have worked and have been laid off, the second is for people who just âchooseâ to go on the Dole in the example above.
You get more welfare benefits ultimately from having worked. Itâs not as simple as saying that youâre only getting a euro for every hour you worked - youâre paying into a PRSI scheme that will ultimately benefit you in the long run.[/quote]
Ok, i was looking at from another point. I get ya. That is a fair system in some ways. Only thing is, i had to go on the dole for a period last year, and i was getting less than guys consistantly on it.
Julio - So your thankful you have a job right? Your thinking on this is off. Your better off working firstly, for your own self being, and throwing in the extra 10% thing about Dublin is irrelivant. You are on the same playing field as everyone else in Dublin, as you would be in Cork, Limerick or Clare. You got yourself a job, so fair play, the guy down the road may not have one, he gets dole, but he has to shop in the same shop as you. Get what iâm getting at?
