I don’t have anything much to say on this as of yet except that this match deserves a thread, and that I hope Bayern win. However I think Chelsea will win, probably, in a role reversal of ethnic stereotypes, on penalties.
The backdrop to this match is whether or not Spurs will qualify for the Champions league.
Prayers are bing offered at the Wailing Wall all week for a Bayern victory.
Ironic really as Munich would have been an SS stronghold in the day.
PS- If Chelsea get to an hour scoreless I think they’ll pull it off, maybe even on penalties despite what Bastion has being saying this week.
Looking at it candidly though you’d have to fancy FC Hollywood, their own stadium is just the cherry on the top. If it was on in Stamford bridge I’d still make them favourites.
Added incentive for Chelsea in that if they deny Spurs the Champions League spot then Modric will most likely request a transfer.
Munich to start nervously in front of their home crowd and under huge pressure.
Chelsea to go 1 up between 5 and 10 minutes into the game.
Munich to equalise just before half time.
The second half to be bad tempered with at least 1 red card for each, possibly 2 for Chelsea.
Munich to score the winner via penalty with ten minutes to go.
It will be an awful game all round.
There was a good article in the Observer in the weekend about Bayern’s anti-Nazi past:
Bayern Munich embrace anti-Nazi history after 80 years of silence
Bayern Munich have around 12 million fans in Germany, a number that is dwarfed only by those who dislike the club with equal passion. And Bayern would not have it any other way. They actively play on a heightened sense of Bavarian-ness, on a confidence that verges on arrogance and describe themselves as “a family” to create an “us and them” dynamic. “We cultivate this polarisation,” Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, the CEO, says. “Partly because it means that we have constant media exposure.”
This aggressive marketing – and continued success on the pitch, with the Champions League final against Chelsea on Saturday – has made Bayern a blue-chip brand, representing West Germany’s golden, Franz Beckenbauer-led era of the 70s and the promise of the current generation. But there is also a very different side to “FC Hollywood”, a part of the Bayern story that is still unknown to most supporters and that has also only been recently embraced by the club after nearly 80 years of awkward silence.
Bayern were founded in the bohemian quarter of Schwabing, and were very much a Jewish club before the second world war, with a Jewish president and a Jewish manager. As a consequence, Bayern were targeted by the Nazis but players and officials continued to defy the regime with small acts of personal courage. “All those things were forgotten in the post-war years,” said Dietrich Schulze-Marmeling, the author of 2011’s award-winning Der FC Bayern und seine Juden (FC Bayern and their Jews). “Bayern’s success in the 60s and 70s submerged the past, and West German society on the whole only started to look back at the Holocaust in earnest in 1979, in any case.”
On the club’s founding charter from 1900, two out of 17 signatories were Jewish. One of them, the Dortmund-born artist Benno Elkan, would later emigrate to London and become a prominent sculptor: on commission from Westminster, he built the seven-branched Candelabra (Menorah) that stands outside the Israeli parliament in Jerusalem. From 1911, Bayern were led by Kurt Landauer, the son of a wealthy Jewish businessman, and the team were coached by a succession of Jewish coaches, including the Austro‑Hungarian Richard “Little” Dombi, who went on to manage Barcelona and Feyenoord. Landauer’s commitment and Dombi’s knowhow secured a first German championship for Bayern in 1932. Landauer had to resign, along with a number of other Jewish members and officials, when Hitler seized power a few months later and fled to Switzerland after 33 days in the Dachau concentration camp.
Bayern were discredited as a Judenklub by the Nazis but resisted its cooptation. In 1934, Bayern players were involved in a brawl with Nazi brownshirts. Two years later, the Bayern winger Willy Simetsreiter made a point of having his picture taken with Jesse Owens, who enraged Hitler by winning four gold medals at the Berlin Olympics. The full-back Sigmund Haringer narrowly escaped prison for calling a Nazi flag parade a “kids’ theatre”, and the captain, Conny Heidkamp, and his wife hid Bayern’s silverware when other clubs heeded an appeal fromReichsmarschall Herman Göring to donate metal for the war effort. The most symbolic act of defiance occurred in Zurich in 1943. After a friendly against the Swiss national team, the Bayern players lined up to wave at the exiled Landauer in the stands.
Landauer returned to Munich after the war and once again became Bayern president until 1951. But his legacy became lost. Club publications simply mentioned that he had to leave Germany “on political-racial grounds”. “The word ‘Jew’ was assiduously avoided,” said Schulze-Marmeling. At the turn of the century, a wave of academic books and newspaper articles renewed interest in the Landauer era but the Bayern leadership were unsure as to how they should react. Bayern’s general manager, Uli Hoeness, fobbed off an inquisitive reporter by saying he “wasn’t alive at the time”, and vice-president Fritz Scherer later admitted that the club did not want to emphasize its Jewish roots for fear of “negative reactions”. “We don’t want to provoke something,” Scherer said. Schulze-Marmeling suspects that commercial interests in Asia may also have been the reason why Bayern sought to play down their Jewish heritage.
The club’s attitude has changed markedly in recent years, however. The club’s Ultras have celebrated Landauer and Rummenigge has acknowledged him as “the father of the modern FC Bayern”. The club also donated part of the money that enabled the Jewish amateur club TSV Maccabi Munich to build a pitch bearing Landauer’s name in 2010. The ground was inaugurated with a friendly against Bayern’s “All-Star-Team”.
The Landauer years will take pride of place in the Erlebniswelt museum the club are opening in the Allianz Arena this summer. “I’ve been in the club for many years but had little idea about all these amazing stories,” said Hans-Peter Renner, the museum’s content director. “It’s been profoundly moving to learn about all these people and the things they did for the club.”
Hard to predict the lineups with injuries and suspensions taking their toll but for Bayern I think they’ll go with:
[soccer]
[gk]Neuer[/gk]
[lb]Contento[/lb]
[rcb]Tymoshchuk[/rcb]
[lcb]Boateng[/lcb]
[rb]Lahm[/rb]
[ldm]Schweinsteiger[/ldm]
[rcm]Kroos[/rcm]
[rw]Robben[/rw]
[cam]Mueller[/cam]
[lw]Ribery[/lw]
[st]Gomez[/st]
[/soccer]
There has been talk of Van Buyten coming into the team, to deal with Drogba primarily, but he hasn’t played since January so it would be a huge risk. Bringing him in would probably mean Tymoshchuk moving forward alongside Schweinsteiger* with Kroos playing in the more advanced role and Mueller dropping out.
Certainly going with Kroos as one of the more defensive midfielders, with Mueller ahead of him, is more offensive than they’d probably like but they’re not blessed with great options due to the suspensions.
- Bandage tells me I’m to stop calling him Schweini in my posts
Preview from Jonathan Wilson for Sports Illustrated. Concentrates a little too much on how Chelsea might line up and there’s little enough analysis of Bayern but it’s worth a read anyway.
Suspensions leave Bayern, Chelsea with lineup quandaries for final
It’s rare to approach a game of the magnitude of Saturday’s Champions League final with so many massive questions about the lineups of both sides.
Four Chelsea players – defenders John Terry and Branislav Ivanovic, and midfielders Ramires and Raul Meireles – will be suspended for the final; Bayern Munich will be without three (defensive midfielder Luiz Gustavo, along with defenders Holger Badstuber and David Alaba). And that means any assessment of what might happen is going to be dotted with ifs and maybes.
Bayern’s lineup is probably easier to predict than Chelsea’s. There’s little doubt manager Jupp Heynckes’ preferred starting XI is the side he played in both legs of the Champions League semifinal against Real Madrid and in the German Cup final loss to Borussia Dortmund last Saturday. That’s a 4-2-3-1: Phillip Lahm, Jerome Boateng, Badstuber and Alaba across the back; Luiz Gustavo and Bastian Schweinsteiger holding in midfield; Arjen Robben on the right, Franck Ribery on the left; and Toni Kroos behind frontman Mario Gomez. It’s a pleasingly balanced side, with coalitions all over the pitch: Lahm and Robben link well, while the central-midfield triangle – with Schweinsteiger shuttling and Kroos dropping back as required – was probably the major reason Bayern dominated Real Madrid in the first leg of its semifinal.
Unless Anatoliy Tymoshchuk gets a surprise call to replace the suspended Gustavo, Schweinsteiger likely will take on the more defensive holding role, with Kroos dropping into the shuttling role. (Expect Tymoshchuk to take Badstuber’s spot, barring the return of Daniel van Buyten after a four-month absence.) That leaves Thomas Müller, who’s far less intelligent and versatile than Kroos, operating behind Gomez.
All three are fine players, but there isn’t quite the same sense of toughness and flexibility as in the first-choice selection, and it’s easy to imagine Müller becoming mired in the flood of bodies Chelsea are likely to pack into deep central midfield.
Van Buyten aside, replacing David Alaba is yet another big question. The straight replacement would be Diego Contento, but he has started just five Bundesliga games this season. Heynckes has the option of breaking up the Lahm-Robben axis on the right, effective though that was against Real Madrid, and shifting Lahm to left back with Rafinha, who has started 20 Bundesliga games this season, coming in at right back.
The real interest, though, is in how Chelsea will line up. Without Terry and Ivanovic, caretaker manager Roberto Di Matteo must hope David Luiz and Gary Cahill have recovered from hamstring problems. Neither played against Blackburn Rovers in Sunday’s Premier League finale, but the suggestion is that they will be fit to fill both center back roles. If not, then Michael Essien would presumably have to drop back from midfield unless Di Matteo turns to the 22-year-old Sam Hutchinson, who has just returned to action after unexpectedly recovering from a knee injury that forced him to retire in 2010.
That means Jose Bosingwa at right back and Ashley Cole at left back. Cole has probably been the world’s best left back over the past decade, and while his pace isn’t what it was, he has produced some outstanding performances this season, notably in the two legs of the semifinal against Barcelona. His battle with former teammate Robben should be fascinating.
The other flank, though, is more of a concern for Chelsea. Bosingwa is comfortable on the ball, but can look vulnerable when players run at him. If Ribery is in the right mood, he could be devastating against the Portugal international.
That leads to the next major issue for Di Matteo to resolve: Does he play a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1? Against Barcelona – until Terry’s moment of idiocy and subsequent red card – he preferred a 4-3-3. Mikel John Obi was flanked by Meireles and Frank Lampard, with Juan Mata as the sole creative option on the right and Ramires scuttling up and down the left. Without Ramires and Meireles, the options are more limited.
Di Matteo could go for a three-man blanket in front of the back four again, bringing in Essien for Meireles, but Bayern pose a different threat to that of Barcelona. With Barça, an opponent can effectively cede wide areas and look to block off the center, knowing that Barça pose little aerial threat and so crosses are unlikely to pose much danger. However, Bayern’s main threat is the flanks, so Chelsea may opt instead for a 4-2-3-1, which in practice may end up looking more like a 4-4-1-1. That would mean Mata off center forward Didier Drogba, which would restrict Schweinsteiger, with Lampard and Mikel sitting deep in midfield, trying to stifle both Müller and the forward surges of Kroos.
So who plays wide? There might be an argument even for using Essien on the right to double up on Ribery, although if Contento were preferred at left back, that would feel like giving him an easy ride defensively. Playing Daniel Sturridge on the right would at least pose an attacking threat for the fullback, but his lack of defensive discipline would risk leaving Bosingwa as exposed.
Strange as it may sound, the best option may be Salomon Kalou, who has somehow racked up 156 league appearances for Chelsea without every looking entirely convincing. He did, though, play with great intelligence and discipline after coming off the bench in both legs against Barcelona.
Drogba, with his aerial power and renewed sense of focus, is an automatic pick up top – perhaps with Fernando Torres to come on to use his pace if the game gets stretched late on. That leaves the left side, where logic would seem to suggest a start for Florent Malouda, if he’s fit, despite a slump in form stretching back almost two years. He does, though, give Chelsea the muscularity that might be able to check Lahm. Then again, if Lahm is on the left, Di Matteo would probably prefer Sturridge or Kalou on that side to try to challenge Rafinha defensively.
The other quandary for Chelsea is how aggressively to approach the game. Bayern has struggled this season against both Dortmund (three defeats, culminating in a 5-2 walloping in the Cup final last Saturday) and Mainz (a 3-2 away defeat and a 0-0 draw at home), suggesting it still is discomforted by a hard-pressing game. Chelsea, though, really isn’t equipped for that sort of approach – in fact, the attempt to implement it led to the firing of Andre Villas-boas – and so will probably sit deep.
The danger, though, is that Bayern is much stronger in the air than Barça, and so Chelsea cannot invite crosses, which means early engagement and an attempt to stop the supply to the flanks. Bayern defeated Real Madrid in the center; it’s there that Chelsea must stifle it.
Bayern to win comfortably
I enjoyed Zonal Marking’s preview of the match.
What are the odds for there to be a sending off in the match?
[quote=“Bandage, post: 684969”]I enjoyed Zonal Marking’s preview of the match.
What are the odds for there to be a sending off in the match?[/quote]
10/3 with powers for red card.
Have decided to support Bayern as they are the slightly less loathsome of the two teams.
Decent read alright.
The more I look at the game the more confident I am of a Bayern win. I do think they’ll miss Gustavo, Alaba and Badstuber terribly (and possibly even more than Chelsea will miss their absentees) but they have the better players and despite the three goals that Chelsea got on the break against Barca I don’t think they’re a particularly good counter-attacking team. They didn’t carve out multiple chances on the break against Barca - not that they had much opportunity admittedly. Mata isn’t that quick, Kalou and Malouda have a bit of pace but I don’t rate Kalou and Malouda has had a poor season.
In Schweinsteiger, Kroos and Mueller (despite Jonathan Wilson oddly suggesting Mueller doesn’t have great footballing intelligence) I think Bayern have enough to control the game in the centre, not matter how imperfectly balanced they are defensively. They have good changes of pace and more variety to their attack than Barca did. The wingers and Gomez will require Chelsea to defend as a normal (i.e. wider) back four so I think that will leave space for the likes of Kroos and Mueller and the wingers coming off the flank to cause problems.
Confident of a victory for the heimland.
All manner of journalists in Munich are reporting that Ryan Bertrand will start on the left in front of Cole playing the shuttling role the suspended Ramires did against Barca. It would be his first CL start and he’s more renowned as a full back.
Was just about to post that. Very strange one. Presumably that’s ahead of Essien so, assuming Malouda isn’t fit enough to start?
What time is kick off?
I have a match at 7:30 :shakefist:
Neuer - Lahm, Tymoshchuk, Boateng, Contento - Schweinsteiger, Kroos - Robben, Müller, Ribery - Gomez
Cech - Bosingwa, Cahill, Luiz, Cole - Mikel, Lampard - Kalou, Mata, Bertrand - Drogba
Prediction:
FC Bayern 1 (Gomez 43)
Chelsea 1 (Drogba 20)
Chelsea to win 5-3 on penalties
Great to see I was on target with my prediction that Tymoshchuk would start at centre back after Badstuber was suspended.