Cheerio to Bill, Eamon, Liam and John?

1

I know this has been touched on in the Euro 2012 media coverage thread but is it time for the lads to call it a day?

No doubt they bring humour and entertainment on certain nights but they are complete bluffers who have gotten away with having to do the slightest bit of research on teams and players for years now, is this still good enough ?

Who would you like to bring in, or retain for a new look show?

The spanish anthem quip can be added to the below from Eamon Sweeney

We love our myths in this country. Like the one about how the football fans of Ireland should go down on their knees every morning and thank God that they have been blessed with the finest analysts on the planet in the shape of Eamon Dunphy[/url], John Giles and [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Liam_Brady”]Liam Brady. Or, for the purposes of brevity, Gibranphy.
Sky Sports, apparently, is full of shysters trying to persuade you that bad games are actually good ones while both ITV and BBC are silly and trivial. Gibranphy, on the other hand, is a creature of awesome erudition, a teller of harsh truths, an oracle unrivalled in its ability to read the auguries and discern the true meaning of the game.
So goes the conventional wisdom parroted most enthusiastically, oddly enough, by those who see themselves as possessing a bit more nous than the members of the common herd. But is it true or just another load of self-aggrandising nonsense that doesn’t bear up under any kind of close scrutiny?
Take, for example, the aftermath of Italy’s[/url] semi-final win over [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Germany_national_football_team”]Germany[/url]. Dunphy pointed out that this was the latest in a series of failures by this particular group of German players. These players, he explained, had also lost in the 2006 World Cup semi-final, the 2008 European Championship final and the [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/2010_World_Cup”]2010 World Cup semi-final. They’d just have to face up to the fact that they weren’t good enough. Small wonder that Bill O’Herlihy, wearing his best, ‘I’m a complete and utter gobshite, enlighten me further,’ expression wondered where the Germans could go from here given that this team had been part of our old friend, A Golden Generation.
Dunphy’s statement was articulate. It was typically forthright. The only problem is that it was also a load of old bollocks. Only two of the German players who started against Italy[/url], [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Philipp_Lahm”]Philipp Lahm[/url] and [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Lukas_Podolski”]Lukas Podolski[/url], had started the 2006 World Cup semi-final. Only three of the starting line-up had even been on the German team two years later, Bastien Schweinsteiger being the addition. [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Miroslav_Klose”]Miroslav Klose, who came on as a sub on Thursday, had also played in those games.
The fact is that the German squad was the youngest in the competition with an average age of 24 and is backboned by players who were still in their teens in 2006. Thomas Muller[/url], [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Toni_Kroos”]Toni Kroos[/url] and [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Marco_Reus”]Marco Reus[/url] are 22, [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Mesut_Ozil”]Mesut Ozil[/url], [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Jerome_Boateng”]Jerome Boateng[/url], [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Holger_Badstuber”]Holger Badstuber[/url] and [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Mats_Hummels”]Mats Hummels[/url] are 23, [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Sami_Khedira”]Sami Khedira[/url] is 25, [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Manuel_Neuer”]Manuel Neuer didn’t make his international debut till 2009. These players had as much to do with the German failures in 2006 and 2008 as Dunphy did. If there is A Golden Generation in Germany, its time is beginning rather than ending.
Okay, we all make mistakes. But that pontification on Germany is a classic example of Gibranphy at work. It was a sweeping statement delivered with great authority. And it made no sense at all.
The most notorious example of Gibranphy’s predilection for ignoring the facts when they don’t [color=#009900 !important]fit with some preconceived theory is their continued insistence that Cristiano Ronaldo[/url] isn’t much of a footballer, which at this stage has become something of a crusade. When [color=#009900 !important][u]Ronaldo[/u] was producing a string of great performances for [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Manchester_United”]Manchester United[/url] and scoring 42 goals in 48 games as they won the Champions League and the Premiership in 2008, Gibranphy heaped credit on [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Nemanja_Vidic”]Nemanja Vidic[/url], [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Wayne_Rooney”]Wayne Rooney[/url], [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Paul_Scholes”]Paul Scholes[/url], [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Ryan_Giggs”]Ryan Giggs, anyone but the Portuguese player.
Ronaldo is an even greater player now and the season just gone saw him produce one of the finest individual campaigns ever. The 46 league goals he scored in 38 games was a La Liga[/url] record until [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Lionel_Messi”]Lionel Messi[/url] surpassed it with 50 for [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Barcelona”]Barcelona[/url], but more impressive still was the way that, during [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Real_Madrid”]Real Madrid’s epic run-in battle with Barca, he so often scored at vital times, notably when hitting the winner in a 2-1 victory at the Nou Camp.
Yet, even after all this, Gibranphy have continued to focus more on Ronaldo’s step-overs and his ‘petulance’ than his talent. This sniping reached a new apogee of lunacy after the player’s outstanding performance in Portugal’s[/url] quarter-final win over the [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Czech_Republic_national_football_team”]Czech Republic when Giles and Dunphy eschewed all other analysis, instead opting to defend their low opinion of Ronaldo by suggesting among other things that he wasn’t a great player because he shouted at his team-mates.
Things became surreally daft when Richie Sadlier, bearing the air of a man who couldn’t quite believe what he was hearing, suggested that perhaps Pele and Diego[/url] [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Diego_Maradona”]Maradona hadn’t exactly been brilliant at defending and tracking back either. When Giles said they had, Darragh Maloney intervened to prevent the senior member of the connoisseurs from embarrassing himself any further.
Sporting analysis is a matter of opinion. There’s no empirical truth other than the scoreline. But we’re entitled to doubt the brilliance of analysts whose opinions bear little resemblance to reality. I’m entitled to suggest that Colm Cooper and Henry Shefflin are over-rated players of little real talent. But you’re just as entitled to think this shows I haven’t a clue what I’m on about.
That two thirds of Gibranphy were fine players themselves doesn’t mean they’re immune to getting things badly wrong. After all, Tolstoy said that Shakespeare “can not be recognised either as a great genius or even as an average author.”
The argument that Gibranphy dismiss Ronaldo because he doesn’t meet some strict platonic standard of greatness doesn’t hold water. After Wayne Rooney had lumbered sweatily around the pitch against Italy like a hangover looking for a head to land in, Dunphy was still describing him as one of the great players of the modern era. It doesn’t matter how many times Rooney fails in major tournaments, Dunphy can still detect greatness in him. As with Ronaldo, this judgement seems to have little to do with the performance of the player in question.
Sweeping statements are great fun to make, particularly if you rarely admit to getting it wrong. And, listening to two thirds of Gibranphy compare Ronaldo unfavourably to Maradona, I couldn’t help remembering a time when
Dunphy had given Diego the same treatment. It was at half-time during the 1986 World Cup quarter-final. In the first half, Maradona had gone on a couple of long runs at the heart of the English defence which Dunphy derided as aimless excursions. Ten minutes into the second half, one of those runs produced perhaps the finest solo goal of all time.
I suppose I should finish off with a sweeping statement and say that Gibranphy are rubbish. But I’m not one for sweeping statements. Sometimes RTE’s big guns are good but sometimes their prejudices and the certainty with which they expound them makes them sound more like The Three Stooges than The Three Wise Men.
And are they really an oasis of erudition in a desert of idle chatter? Gary Neville[/url] on Sky has turned out to be consistently better than the three of them, [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Roy_Keane”]Roy Keane[/url] on ITV was the man who told the harsh truth about [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team”]Ireland[/url] and provoked public debate and [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Dietmar_Hamann”]Dietmar Hamann[/url], Richie Sadlier and [url=“http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Kenny_Cunningham”]Kenny Cunningham have arguably been better than the big three during the championships.
The decision to put Brady on the panel during Ireland games turned out to be a disaster, his friendship with the Irish manager forcing O’Herlihy to phrase every question with the delicacy of a showbiz reporter asking Angelina Jolie her opinion of Brad Pitt’s new film.
These days Gibranphy is running on empty. The troika members have become sad imitations of themselves. Apres Match is still pretty good though.

2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHGcSMtyQ-E

3

It’s time for them to go. The “analysis” over the course of the Euros was scandalously poor.

Bye bye lads, thanks for the memories.

4

I’d like them to stay.

5

I will need guarantees as to who will replace them. Also I see no reason to toss Liam with the other if its the case.

6

Hamann will be most likely be poached by the UK broadcasters after a particularly good championship.

Sadlier wasn’t bad and I agree on Brady as well.

7

I’d take Brian Kerr, Pat Dolan and Tony Cascarino as an alternative panel.

8

Consider the alternatives.

Sadlier, Whelan, and Cunningham as the new A-Team. Jason McAteer, Alan Matthews and Roddy Collins as back up.

World Cup Breakfast with Con Murphy and the brains trust of Dion Fanning, Daniel McDonnell and Emmet Malone.

A World Cup Forum after the match with celebrities such as Rosanna Davison and Harry Crosbie. Niall Quinn and Andy Townsend fronting a viewers’ calls section for the afternoon games. Oh wait, I think they’ve already been done.

9

I’m baffled by the Tolstoy quote. Is it relevant?

10

I found it a bit confusing as well and googled it. This is the context:

"My disagreement with the established opinion about Shakespeare is not the result of an accidental frame of mind, nor of a light-minded attitude toward the matter, but is the outcome of many years’ repeated and insistent endeavors to harmonize my own views of Shakespeare with those established amongst all civilized men of the Christian world.

I remember the astonishment I felt when I first read Shakespeare. I expected to receive a powerful esthetic pleasure, but having read, one after the other, works regarded as his best: “King Lear,” “Romeo and Juliet,” “Hamlet” and “Macbeth,” not only did I feel no delight, but I felt an irresistible repulsion and tedium, and doubted as to whether I was senseless in feeling works regarded as the summit of perfection by the whole of the civilized world to be trivial and positively bad, or whether the significance which this civilized world attributes to the works of Shakespeare was itself senseless. My consternation was increased by the fact that I always keenly felt the beauties of poetry in every form; then why should artistic works recognized by the whole world as those of a genius,—the works of Shakespeare,—not only fail to please me, but be disagreeable to me? For a long time I could not believe in myself, and during fifty years, in order to test myself, I several times recommenced reading Shakespeare in every possible form, in Russian, in English, in German and in Schlegel’s translation, as I was advised. Several times I read the dramas and the comedies and historical plays, and I invariably underwent the same feelings: repulsion, weariness, and bewilderment. At the present time, before writing this preface, being desirous once more to test myself, I have, as an old man of seventy-five, again read the whole of Shakespeare, including the historical plays, the “Henrys,” “Troilus and Cressida,” the “Tempest,” “Cymbeline,” and I have felt, with even greater force, the same feelings,—this time, however, not of bewilderment, but of firm, indubitable conviction that the unquestionable glory of a great genius which Shakespeare enjoys, and which compels writers of our time to imitate him and readers and spectators to discover in him non-existent merits,—thereby distorting their esthetic and ethical understanding,—is a great evil, as is every untruth.

Although I know that the majority of people so firmly believe in the greatness of Shakespeare that in reading this judgment of mine they will not admit even the possibility of its justice, and will not give it the slightest attention, nevertheless I will endeavor, as well as I can, to show why I believe that Shakespeare can not be recognized either as a great genius, or even as an average author."

It is relevant, but terribly clunky. It would have a lot more sense after the Cooper/Shefflin sentence.

11

Seems like a bit of intellectual willy waving by our Sligo correspondent anxious to let everyone know that he has an arts degree.

12

Who the fuck relies on the panel for analysis? It’s flat out entertainment. I’d like to see Kerr more though, his co-commentary was excellent and still quite funny at times. If I was to axe anyone in the football department it’d be Houghton and Whelan.

For analysis there’s the Guardian, Zonal Marking etc. etc. But I don’t particularly want to watch Jonathan Wilson comparing Italy to a Dynamo Kiev side from the late 60s, or somesuch, at half-time in a big game when I’m drinking beer on the couch. I want to see someone more pissed than I am, i.e Dunphy, talk shite and nonsense in a humorous manner.

13

The awkward insertion of the reference makes it a little embarrassing to be honest.

14

Agree with the gist of that.
It’s kind of annoying that the lads take themselves so seriously and think they’re at the cutting edge of analysis though. They could at least do a miniscule amount of research and still be entertaining. Even the entertainment is almost gone too. Definitely needs some kind of fresh injection. The only bit I can remember that kept me glued was the usual shite talk about Ronaldo (possibly after the Denmark game?) and that was only cos there were fresh faces involved in Sadlier and Darragh Maloney.

15

Exactly.

No one is looking for ground breaking analysis, but just some preparation at least.

They’ve been at it too long now and there were times during the recent campaign,after Ireland’s defeats especially, where the claws were retracted pretty rapidly incase they offended the others.

I’d keep Eamon, but I’d pit him against someone that is not afraid to speak their mind but who also backs it up with research, not horse shit. Step forward Pat Dolan!

16

Kerr, Dolan and Sadlier. Cascarino is what Dunphy might call a fraud

17

I thought Gary McAllister and Andy Cole were very good on Setanta. Gary Breen was not good, his diction is appalling.

18

robbie slater and bozzy are the dream team of analysts.

19

I thought we all agreed that Sadlier is a Cunt.

20

the two lads are on with Miriam tonight. Should be epic.