[ATTACH=full]2953[/ATTACH] Interesting stat Kimmage posted on Twitter
Tests carried out?
He doesnāt say but presume it must be
Zero in competition in rugby
http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Anti-Doping/Resources1/
Kimmage took the photo off there, on page 13 there is a āUser Paysā section which is sports organisations paying the ISC to carry out additional tests. Between the Six Nations, World Rugby and the IRFU there were 110 additional tests carried out including 52 in competition ones. It is strange that there are no āin competitionā tests in the ISC directly funded tests but maybe that is just a financial arrangement that rugby has come to with the ISC. It is a blatant misrepresentation by Kimmage of the report though clearly.
I donāt know why Kimmage ignores that. Maybe he just didnāt read the report correctly, either way it is terrible journalism. Itās a pity he does it as well as he is such a great writer, but his obsession with there being some conspiracy is embarrassing at this stage. The biggest problem he has is he just doesnāt understand rugby or the business around it which he did in cycling. The sad thing is any improvements to anti doping will just be pushed down the tracks as he is coming out with such nonsense and is being laughed at in rugby.
Iām sure that really bothers him
[QUOTE=āTim Riggins, post: 1147978, member: 1382ā]http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Anti-Doping/Resources1/
Kimmage took the photo off there, on page 13 there is a āUser Paysā section which is sports organisations paying the ISC to carry out additional tests. Between the Six Nations, World Rugby and the IRFU there were 110 additional tests carried out including 52 in competition ones. It is strange that there are no āin competitionā tests in the ISC directly funded tests but maybe that is just a financial arrangement that rugby has come to with the ISC. It is a blatant misrepresentation by Kimmage of the report though clearly.
I donāt know why Kimmage ignores that. Maybe he just didnāt read the report correctly, either way it is terrible journalism. Itās a pity he does it as well as he is such a great writer, but his obsession with there being some conspiracy is embarrassing at this stage. The biggest problem he has is he just doesnāt understand rugby or the business around it which he did in cycling. The sad thing is any improvements to anti doping will just be pushed down the tracks as he is coming out with such nonsense and is being laughed at in rugby.[/QUOTE]
Sweep, sweep.
[QUOTE=āTim Riggins, post: 1147978, member: 1382ā]http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Anti-Doping/Resources1/
Kimmage took the photo off there, on page 13 there is a āUser Paysā section which is sports organisations paying the ISC to carry out additional tests. Between the Six Nations, World Rugby and the IRFU there were 110 additional tests carried out including 52 in competition ones. It is strange that there are no āin competitionā tests in the ISC directly funded tests but maybe that is just a financial arrangement that rugby has come to with the ISC. It is a blatant misrepresentation by Kimmage of the report though clearly.
I donāt know why Kimmage ignores that. Maybe he just didnāt read the report correctly, either way it is terrible journalism. Itās a pity he does it as well as he is such a great writer, but his obsession with there being some conspiracy is embarrassing at this stage. The biggest problem he has is he just doesnāt understand rugby or the business around it which he did in cycling. The sad thing is any improvements to anti doping will just be pushed down the tracks as he is coming out with such nonsense and is being laughed at in rugby.[/QUOTE]
Outstanding post. 
[QUOTE=āTim Riggins, post: 1147978, member: 1382ā]http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Anti-Doping/Resources1/
Kimmage took the photo off there, on page 13 there is a āUser Paysā section which is sports organisations paying the ISC to carry out additional tests. Between the Six Nations, World Rugby and the IRFU there were 110 additional tests carried out including 52 in competition ones. It is strange that there are no āin competitionā tests in the ISC directly funded tests but maybe that is just a financial arrangement that rugby has come to with the ISC. It is a blatant misrepresentation by Kimmage of the report though clearly.
I donāt know why Kimmage ignores that. Maybe he just didnāt read the report correctly, either way it is terrible journalism. Itās a pity he does it as well as he is such a great writer, but his obsession with there being some conspiracy is embarrassing at this stage. The biggest problem he has is he just doesnāt understand rugby or the business around it which he did in cycling. The sad thing is any improvements to anti doping will just be pushed down the tracks as he is coming out with such nonsense and is being laughed at in rugby.[/QUOTE]
Itās beyond naive to suggest that rugby stands alone as isolated from doping. Itās a high contact sport with an emphasis on power, a growing monetary element and a governing body whose first instinct is to assure everyone there is no doping problem.
The problem with uncovering doping is itās very difficult and itās especially difficult in an area where there is limited testing and where positive tests are hushed up and categorised as TUE exceptions.
There are sports that are rife with abuse and we know it: cycling, athletics. Sports which donāt bother punishing it properly so are just paying lip service: boxing, American football. And sports who would have us believe that they are somehow clean despite the obvious doping advantages and despite the pathetic testing: rugby.
Rugby will laugh at him the same way cycling did for years. And the same way the whole country laughed at the MSDB critics after Atlanta. But itās wilful ignorance. Guys who get introduced to creatine at 15 donāt stop there.
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@Tim Riggins is a fucking ostrich
Itās amazing the consistency in reactions to Kimmage over the years:
āNice guy and good writing but pity heās so bitter about cycling. Just because he doped doesnāt mean everyone did.ā
āWell he was right about the cycling but that doesnāt make him always right. His Michelle Smyth stuff is pathetic. Pity, because I always liked him but heās just listening to Janet Evans. Typical Irish begrudgery.ā
āIāve actually always liked him as a writer and he did well before but this Lance stuff is just a vendetta at this stage. Heās the most tested athlete in the world for Godās sake. Iāll always like Kimmage but heās blinded by bitterness on Lance for some reason.ā
āYou know, I think Kimmage is a great writer and he called plenty of things right over the years but this rugby stuff is just nonsense. He has no evidence to back it up at all. I thought he was better than that. Pity, because heās a good writer but heās blinded by his own prejudices here.ā
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I didnāt say there was no doping or a doping problem, just that Kimmage thinks this is cycling 2.0 and is shitting on about omerta. Only a fool would think pro players are all squeaky clean.
So far all he has uncovered is an ex French player from basically the ameteur era unhappy with the size of players and who was given cortisone in his grand crusade. The way he wrote that story you would think there was a grand conspiracy in French rugby. This is the same French rugby where overseas players have found themselves arranging their own gym sessions as clubs couldnāt be arsed.
Amazing stuff Paul.
Comparing rugby to cycling is dumb. Reading about the doping programmes, there is no way they could exist in anyway the same way. This is where rugby and team sports generally deviates from individual and small team organisation sports. There was a brilliant article around the time of Armstrong from another cyclist who talked about the myth that āthey all doped, he was just the bestā. Even aside from the point in how drugs effect people differently, the logistics required to run a first class doping programme are tough. The finanice required has to come from the top. The planning comes from top to bottom. The incentive isnāt just there at an individual level, but a team one. That just canāt happen in Irish rugby. There are so many layers with players moving from province to international, with so many more people involved and the employers are the governing body of the sport. The IRFU are a governing body whose finances are scrutinised and the ameteur boys still have input at every level. A doping programme of that degree is just laughable.
People are laughing at Kimmage because he does things like the above. He is blatantly stirring the pot. It is terrible journalism. Kimmage thinks he is a crusader against the authorities and people telling him heās talking shite is proof of a cover up. Heās still sore that David Walsh got the lions share of credit for the cycling story and that Kimmage is back at the Sindo. I guess coming back to the Irish market full time heās seen the Joe.ie types and how rugby players and the sport are given such positive press with little questioning. He was burnt by the OāDriscoll book where the best story he had was getting drunk one time. Kimmage missed the boat on concussions and is searching around for relevance and something to burst that bubble.
The former Scotland and British & Irish Lions fly-half Craig Chalmers believes doping is increasingly prevalent in rugby union and fears the authorities are not doing enough to address the issue in the wake of his son Samās positive test.
Chalmers junior returns from a two-year doping ban next month having tested positive for anabolic steroids when on Scotland Under-20s duty in May 2013 and subsequently admitted to taking a banned substance to add bulk.
The Melrose utility back, now 21, said at the time: āI have been stupid, naive and impressionable and would urge other young players not to give in to the constant pressure to be bigger in the manner that I did,ā but Chalmers Sr is shocked at how little has been done by the Scottish Rugby Union since.
āThe thing with doping in rugby is that it goes on, I know it goes on,ā he told Herald Sport. āI hadnāt really thought about it that much before Samās case but then I began asking some people about the stuff that Sam had taken and they seemed to say that it was very common
[QUOTE=āRocko, post: 1148102, member: 1ā]Itās amazing the consistency in reactions to Kimmage over the years:
āNice guy and good writing but pity heās so bitter about cycling. Just because he doped doesnāt mean everyone did.ā
āWell he was right about the cycling but that doesnāt make him always right. His Michelle Smyth stuff is pathetic. Pity, because I always liked him but heās just listening to Janet Evans. Typical Irish begrudgery.ā
āIāve actually always liked him as a writer and he did well before but this Lance stuff is just a vendetta at this stage. Heās the most tested athlete in the world for Godās sake. Iāll always like Kimmage but heās blinded by bitterness on Lance for some reason.ā
āYou know, I think Kimmage is a great writer and he called plenty of things right over the years but this rugby stuff is just nonsense. He has no evidence to back it up at all. I thought he was better than that. Pity, because heās a good writer but heās blinded by his own prejudices here.ā[/QUOTE]
What he has so far from what I can see;
-
Professional rugby players are bigger than from the ameteur days. Wow.
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A rugby player was given cortisone. Wow.
-
A graph above from the Irish Sports Council, which deliberately ignores the 100% of testing rugby does above what the ISC does. Again, wow
Of the last 15 doping violations punished by UK Anti Doping, 13 have been rugby union or league players. There are at least 50 doping bans, of which 28 are being served by British rugby players from either discipline ā including Sam Chalmers, the son of the former Scotland and Lions fly-half Craig, who tested positive for two anabolic steroids at a Scotland Under-20 training session in May 2013.
[QUOTE=āTheUlteriorMotive, post: 1148138, member: 2272ā]The former Scotland and British & Irish Lions fly-half Craig Chalmers believes doping is increasingly prevalent in rugby union and fears the authorities are not doing enough to address the issue in the wake of his son Samās positive test.
Chalmers junior returns from a two-year doping ban next month having tested positive for anabolic steroids when on Scotland Under-20s duty in May 2013 and subsequently admitted to taking a banned substance to add bulk.
The Melrose utility back, now 21, said at the time: āI have been stupid, naive and impressionable and would urge other young players not to give in to the constant pressure to be bigger in the manner that I did,ā but Chalmers Sr is shocked at how little has been done by the Scottish Rugby Union since.
āThe thing with doping in rugby is that it goes on, I know it goes on,ā he told Herald Sport. āI hadnāt really thought about it that much before Samās case but then I began asking some people about the stuff that Sam had taken and they seemed to say that it was very common[/QUOTE]
Whilst that evidence is secondary and very much hearsay, I would still put it above anything Kimmage has come out with thus far.
18-21ish is clearly the problem ages and requires a lot of work. However, to compare that to cycling is hilarious.
[QUOTE=āTim Riggins, post: 1148143, member: 1382ā]Whilst that evidence is secondary and very much hearsay, I would still put it above anything Kimmage has come out with thus far.
18-21ish is clearly the problem ages and requires a lot of work. However, to compare that to cycling is hilarious.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=āTim Riggins, post: 1148136, member: 1382ā]
So far all he has uncovered is an ex French player from basically the ameteur era unhappy with the size of players and who was given cortisone in his grand crusade. The way he wrote that story you would think there was a grand conspiracy in French rugby. This is the same French rugby where overseas players have found themselves arranging their own gym sessions as clubs couldnāt be arsed.
.[/QUOTE]
Having met the man for coffee a few months ago I can tell you heās uncovered a lot more that. But no one will talk, yet.
After heās finished grieving his father I hope to meet him again and Iāll report back. Ostrich.
Applying the game theory - in a professional sport which has become a sport where a prerequisite to compete at the top level is bulk/power and PEDs allow bulk/power to be added then guys are going to take the PEDs.
The only question is whether clubs and countries
a) facilitate it
b) actively encourage it
c) mention to players need to add bulk
d) make it very clear a drugs ban is the end of a career
[QUOTE=āThrawneen, post: 1148148, member: 129ā]Having met the man for coffee a few months ago I can tell you heās uncovered a lot more that. But no one will talk, yet.
After heās finished grieving his father I hope to meet him again and Iāll report back. Ostrich.[/QUOTE]
Yeah Iād say so alright. That graph above there which he deliberately misrepresented gives me some solid indications of how his investigation is going.
sweep sweep