Wolves might stay up, but it’ll be because the rest are just so shit, like City a few years ago when there was always shite buffers to hold them up when they were plodding along.
Hull have appointed Iain Dowie as their new manager. Odd choice IMO. Cant see him keeping them up.
Strong rumours too that Burnley have realised that Brian Laws was a big mistake and he may not last the week.
From what they were saying on SSN earlier Dowie was not one of their top choices but they got a few knockbacks.
Did anyone see McCarthys O.G. last night? It was a terrible mistake.Thought he played ok overall though.
Lots of speculation that they wanted Mark Hughes but he turned them down. Would have thought someone like Paul Jewell would have been an ideal choice. Decent motivator and might have given them a fighting chance. Lots of romours though that the financial situation there is fairly precarious and if they go down they might struggle to survive. Might have scared a few people off.
Hull are fucked. FUCKED.
Seriously, Dowie is the best they can attract? Mick McCarthy will have a happy St Patricks Day. H’on Mick.
I’ve been watching the second half of Aston Villa/Wolves here and Kevin Doyle’s doing a really smashing job of playing upfront on his own in an utterly gash team. Fair play to him.
He is alright Bandage, then you look down the other end and you see the worst footballer in the premiership, Heskey.
Big Mick’s lads really give everything for him despite their severe limitations.
Aston Villa are awful to watch. A long ball team moreso than an efficient long ball team as Wenger put it.
The martin o neill affect. Cuellar ahead of Young. Heskey ahead of someone who can play football. Milner the most overrated player in Europe. Downing. Petrov.
Ashley Young and Carew aside we were diabolical to a man. Wolves are a shocking football side and what Kevin Doyle is doing playing for such a shower of shite is anyone’s guess.
Comical defending from United there. Good header from Torres but Carrick strolling around, gives it away, then Ferdinand was very weak on Gerrard before Neville decided not to bother marking Torres while Carrick has all the time in the world to get back and deny him a free header but strolls back and stands still about 5 yards away instead. Shocking stuff from them.
Probably may make it a better game now but not sure I’ll be bothered sticking it out. The pre-match build-up in the studio was nauseating stuff. The innane questions and answers with Owen were horrific tv.
Please expand. I’m not a Sky subscriber but watched some of their coverage after Inter beat Chelsea midweek. Hilarious after it how they concentrated on how the defeat would impact on the EPL race. That was what Tuesday was all about of course! Used to get annoyed by it but its just cringeworthy at this stage
I didn’t see the Man Utd Liverpool today but spoke to someone that did and caught the highlights there on Premier Soccer Sunday. Giles and Whelan also had some very interesting, and in the main good, points. Liverpool were shite by all accounts.
Torres and particularly Gerrard don’t look happy. This season is obviously written off but the key is to hold on to both of these lads. Fourth place is looking very unlikely now as well so it is going to be a struggle to keep hold of two top players with no Champions League for the season, particularly after an early exit this season and being out of the title race so early.
That, and the fact that financially the club is in a mess, means that the whole base of the club could fall apart.
I think it is critical to get rid of Benitez and inject new life into the club. NOTW were reporting today that Mourinho is interested in the job if Hicks and Gilette are removed but how likely that is to happen is another story.
Depressing times for a Liverpool fan.
Uninspiring but important victory for United today. It was a fairly poor game in truth. United probably just about deserved the win I thought. A huge bonus later in the day with the Chelsea result. This is the current state of the top 3:
Team P GD PTS
1 Man Utd 31 47 69
2 Arsenal 31 40 67
3 Chelsea 30 42 65
United’s run-in:
Bolton (a)
Chelsea (h)
Blackburn (a)
Man City (a)
Spurs (h)
Sunderland (a)
Stoke (h)
Arsenal:
Birmingham (h)
Wolves (h)
Spurs (a) [This will have to be rearranged if Spurs win Cup QF replay]
Wigan (a)
Man City (h)
Blackburn (a)
Fulham (h)
Chelsea:
Portsmouth (a)
Villa (h)
United (a)
Bolton (h) [This will have to be rearranged due to FA Cup semi]
Spurs (a)
Stoke (h)
Liverpool (a)
Wigan (h)
I can’t see Chelsea winning it. Their away form has been poor all season, and they have three very tough away fixtures there. In their favour, they won’t have to deal with the aftermath of European ties for the rest of the season. United have three stand-out fixtures against Spurs, Chelsea and away to City. Spurs away and City at home are Arsenal’s toughest looking games. United’s experience probably just about makes them favourites, but as many have said Arsenal’s run-in is very favourable. It should be a close finish in any case, but I’m confident United will complete the historic four-in-a-row.
Arsenal a tasty 5/2 with the easiest run in.
There was an article in one of the Sunday papers a few weeks back about a potential takeover of Liverpool. They calcualted that any potential purchaser would need approx £1 bn for the deal. Roughly £300-£350 million to buy the club, £200 million to build a new stadium, and the balance to completely rebuild the team.
Chelsea have spent almost £500 million simce Abramovich took over( Tranfer fees, agents fees and player wages all included), and they have “only” won the league twive. I say only as obviously this was a huge improvement on what they had previouly achieved but they couldn’t win the Campions League despite that level of investment. They have also fallen behind Utd in England again.
The main point of the article was how difficult it would be to find an investor with that financial clout. Obvioulsy an Oil billionaire might have the funds but either way it looks like Liverpool fans could be in for a long wait before things improve.
You’ll probably disagree with me farmer, but I think they should cash in on Gerrard in the summer if they can find a buyer. At best, he looks like he needs a fresh challenge. At worst, at the age of 30 in May, he just can’t do the all-action style like he used to. I suspect the latter is the case, and this summer is the last chance they’ll have to get a decent price for him, which they can use to rebuild.
There are problems all around the pitch. They need a new centre-back, left-back and striker at the very least at the moment. Lucas can’t be allowed to play as many games again if they want to do better next season. They also need more quality out wide, though Benayoun hasn’t played as much as I thought he would this season. He was excellent at the back end of last season, when Liverpool were playing so well. I doubt they’ll have the funds to rectify all that in the summer even if they do sell Gerrard though, especially as CL qualification now looks quite unlikely. Troubling times indeed for a Liverpool fan I’d say.
Ah no.
Torres seems happy these days anyway…
I am not sure if all that much is required to turn Liverpool around - definitely not 500 million anyway.
The main problem is centre midfield. Alonso has never been replaced and there is no one in there to link and dictate the play like Alonso did so well. That is the key area which needs to be addressed.
Another area is a back up for Torres where Ngog is clearly not good enough. That a decent left back and I think Liverpool would be able to challenge.
Of course this all costs money which Liverpool don’t appear to have. Cashing in on Gerrard may be an option but I would definitely rather hold on to him.
Battle To The Debt
Portsmouth’s financial plight might just be the tip of the iceberg in the Premier League
Ben Chu
Madding crowd: Portsmouth have been pushed over the edge by the fact their former owner Alexandre Gaydamak has looked for a return in his investment
Portsmouth have finally gone into administration. And to judge by the recent public interventions by a succession of Premier League chairmen, there is a palpable fear other clubs could also be in danger. But how concerned should fans be their own club might follow? The answer to that depends, in part, on the nature of the debt loaded on to each club.
That debt comes in many forms. Several clubs have borrowed directly from banks. These loans tend to come with a variable interest rate and short repayment dates. Liverpool have come unstuck with this. The Royal Bank of Scotland is demanding the owners, who owe £237m, bring in a new investor with £100m to pay down debt as a condition of rolling over its borrowings again.
Others have tapped the bond markets to raise money. Manchester United and Arsenal have issued securities worth £500m and £245m respectively, secured on club assets. Bonds tend to have a longer maturity than bank debt. In Arsenal’s case, the club is locked in at a reasonable interest rate for 20 years. But some bonds are kinder than others. United’s recent offering gives them just seven years in which to repay the money, and at a higher rate of interest. Yet the most expensive debt is the £200m so-called “payment-in-kind notes” which the Glazers took out when they acquired United in 2005. This summer the annual interest rate on that will rise to an astonishing 16.5 per cent.
The accounts of many clubs, such as Fulham, Aston Villa and Wigan, show they are beneficiaries of loans from owners. The owners of Chelsea and Manchester City have even written off their soft loans in recent months, making these two debt-free. But can smaller clubs expect such forgiveness from owners should they run into crisis or their benefactor decides to sell up? The fate of Portsmouth should be a warning.
So fans also need to look at the extent to which their club is living beyond its means. Balancing the books is the sign of a healthy club. By this measure – with only six of 20 clubs showing an operating profit in their most recent accounts – the Premier League is looking very sick.
Manchester United
Turnover £278.5m
Operating profit £91.3m
Net debt £716.6m
Interest payment £68.5m
The 08-09 accounts showed they paid £42m of interest on their £500m of bank loans. And the interest charge on the PIK loan, secured on the controlling shares in the club of the Glazer family, was £26m. But the PIK loan “rolls up” the interest, so the value of that debt rose to £202m in the year. Last month the Glazers issued a £500m bond with an interest rate of 9 per cent and maturity date of 2017. The proceeds will be used to pay off existing loans. The bond prospectus also makes provision for up to £70m to be taken out of the club “for general purposes, including repaying existing indebtedness”. This is assumed to mean paying off some of the Glazers’ PIK debt, on which the interest rate will rise to 16.5 per cent this August. The full PIK debt is repayable in 2017.
Arsenal
Turnover: £312.3m
Operating profit: £58.8m
Net debt: £297.0m
Interest payment: £16.6m
A pocket of financial sanity. The club’s 08-09 accounts show the outstanding value of the bonds issued to finance the Emirates stadium at £244.9m. But this is repayable over a 20- to 22-year term at a fixed interest rate of 5.3 per cent. The club is also paying off some of the principal sum of the bond each year (£5.3m in 08-09), which means Arsenal will not be saddled with debt indefinitely. The bank loan taken out by the club with Barclays to finance the Highbury Square apartment complex stood at £137m, with a repayment date of December 2010 and an interest rate of 2-2.5 per cent above the London inter-bank lending rate (Libor). Since then, however, the club has reduced the property bank loan to £47.1m, financed by selling apartments at Highbury Square for a discount.
LIVERPOOL
Turnover: £164.2m
Operating profit: £24.9m
Net debt : £261.7m
Interest payment : £36.5m
The clearest possible example of the madness of a leveraged buyout in football. Liverpool’s healthy operating profits in 07-08 were wiped out by interest payments on their borrowings from the Royal Bank of Scotland and the US bank Wachovia. Since Liverpool refinanced in the summer, new managing director Christian Purslow has claimed debt is down to £237m.
West Ham
Turnover: £71.6m
Operating profit: –£32.8m
Net debt: £114.9m
Interest payment: £3.0m
As the new co-owner David Gold puts it: “car crash”. West Ham’s 07-08 accounts showed they owed £114.9m, more than its annual turnover. The accounts also showed the club had breached covenants on a £35m bank loan. The new repayment date for that loan is August 2011. This is, no doubt, the reason why the new owners are urgently seeking to raise £40m from new investors.
Fulham
Turnover: £53.7m
Operating profit –£2.1m
Net debt: £164.0m
Interest payment: £1.0m
The colossal size of Fulham’s net borrowing reflects the debt it owes to Mohamed al-Fayed. The 07-08 accounts show the club owes the Harrods owner £159m. However, this is said to be unsecured, interest-free and with no fixed repayment timetable. The club also has a £4.5m bank loan from NatWest.
Aston villa
Turnover: £75.6m
Operating profit: –£13.1m
Net debt: £72.3m
Interest payment : £5.7m
Aston Villa’s 07-08 accounts show the club has a £13m bank loan secured on the club’s assets. £2.5m of this is repayable in three instalments each year until 2012. It also has a £10m overdraft. But Villa’s biggest debt is to American owner Randy Lerner who has lent the club £49.5m. This is repayable in full in December 2016.
SunderlAnd
Turnover: £63.5m
Operating profit: –£2.4m
Net debt: £48.8m
Interest payment: £0.7m
Another club that survives by the grace of wealthy benefactors. The 07-08 accounts show the Black Cats owed £35.2m to their immediate parent company. This was unsecured, interest-free and with no repayment date. The club also had a £13.6m bank overdraft, guaranteed by the owners. Ellis Short, who took full control last May, has given conflicting signals over how much he is willing to spend. The latest word is he wants to reduce the wage bill.
Bolton wanderers
Turnover: £52.3m
Operating profit: –£5.3m
Net debt: £58.4m
Interest payment: £3.9m
Not a healthy picture. Bolton rely on the backing of owner Edwin Davies. The latest accounts show that the club owes its parent company £55.9m. Moreover, this borrowing does not come for free: £23m is repayable on demand and has an interest rate of 10 per cent. A further £11.5m is secured on future TV money. The threat of relegation is real – as is the prospect of a financial crunch.
Hull City
Turnover: £11.2m
Operating profit: –£9.2m
Net debt: £17.1m
Interest payment: £0.4m
An accident in waiting. The note from the accountants in the club’s 07-08 accounts says if the Tigers are relegated they will need to generate a financial surplus of £23m to avoid meltdown. And, even if Hull survive, they will need to generate a £16m surplus. The accounts also show a £22m bank loan, with £12m repayable within a year.
Wigan Athletic
Turnover: £46.3m
Operating profit: –£17.0m
Net debt: £54.0m
Interest payment: £1.5m
All that stands between Wigan and oblivion is Dave Whelan. The owner has put £39m into the club in the form of an unsecured, interest-free loan with no fixed repayment date. The club also has an overdraft and bank loan from Barclays of £18.7m, repayable on demand, on which Wigan paid £1.5m in interest in 08-09. The club ran at an operating loss of £17m in that year and “further losses are anticipated”.
Tottenham Hotspur
Turnover: £113.0m
Operating profit: £18.4m
Net debt: £45.9m
Interest payment: £8.0m
Spurs have gone into debt to build a new training ground in Enfield. The club is paying an annual interest rate of 7.29 per cent on £30m of its borrowings. But it does not have to pay this back until 2024. A planned new 56,000-seat stadium should increase match-day revenues, although it remains to be seen how much the project itself will cost, or the terms of the financing.
Stoke city
Turnover: £11.2m
Operating profit: –£7.8m
Net debt: £2.3m
Interest payment: £0.5m
The Potters’ 07-08 accounts showed negligible debt, but do make it clear how dependent the club is on its benefactor, Peter Coates, the owner of the bet365 online betting company. Revenue will have increased thanks to TV money. But so will their outgoings. Last summer, the club spent £10m on Robert Huth and Tuncay Sanli.
Everton
Turnover: £79.7m
Operating profit: £6.3m
Net debt: £37.9m
Interest payment: £4.1m
Uncertainty reigns. Up to £27m of the Toffees’ borrowings – secured on future ticket sales – are spread over a relatively long period. But the 7.79 per cent interest rate meant £4.1m of cash left the club in 08-09. The plan to increase revenues by building a new stadium in Kirkby was thrown into disarray when the government rejected the proposal.
BurnlEy
Turnover: £11.2m
Operating profit: –£8.9m
Net debt: £11.9m
Interest payment: £2.7m
According to the 08-09 accounts, the Clarets’ chairman, Barry Kilby, and seven other directors had the right to claim full repayment of their £6.97m loans out of the club’s new Premier League revenues following last summer’s promotion. The chairman is aiming for a profit this financial year to improve the balance sheet.
Portsmouth
Turnover: £70.5m
Operating profit: –£17.0m
Net debt: £57.7m
Interest payment: £6.6m
Portsmouth owed £28m to former owner Alexandre Gaydamak, £18m to their owner, Balram Chainrai, and £5m to agents and other creditors. The club was also being pursued for £7.4m of unpaid taxes by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Now the fight will begin by the creditors to get their money back.
Wolves
Turnover: £18.2m
Operating profit: –£1.6m
Net debt: £13.0m
Interest payment: £0m
Wolves spent heavily to win promotion in 2007 and the club’s 07-08 accounts reflect that. The effort was financed by new owner, Steve Morgan, who is now owed £13m by the club, although this is interest-free. Morgan tried to buy Liverpool in 2004 and says he was prepared to put £70m of cash into the Merseyside club to do so. Looking at Wolves’ zero interest bill for 07-08, many Liverpool fans will probably wish he had been successful.
Chelsea
Turnover: £190.0m
Operating profit: –£11.4m
Net debt: £511.6m
Interest payment: £0.7m
Chelsea’s 07-08 accounts show the club falling short of its goal of financial sufficiency. The accounts also showed a debt of £488m to its owner, Roman Abramovich. But last December the club released a statement revealing this had been converted to equity, leaving the club “virtually debt-free”.
Birmingham City
Turnover: £49.8m
Operating profit: £13.7m
Net debt: £12.0m
Interest payment: £0.26m
Hope, perhaps, for Hammers fans. Birmingham City’s 07-08 accounts reflect the golden legacy of David Gold, David Sullivan and Karren Brady. The accounts are evidence that a middle-ranking club without a ridiculously wealthy sugar daddy can run its finances in a sensible manner. The club’s main debt was a £14.7m loan from its parent company, but this appears to be interest-free. Birmingham’s new owner, Hong Kong businessman Carson Yeung, has a solid base on which to build.
Blackburn Rovers
Turnover: £50.9m
Operating profit: –£6.8m
Net debt: £20.3m
Interest payment: £0.8m
Precarious. The latest accounts show bank debt, secured on the club’s assets, projected to increase to £20m. This loan is repayable by May 2012. The estate of the club’s late benefactor, Jack Walker, has lent some £6m interest-free. But there does not appear to be an open-ended commitment. Chairman John Williams has stated the need for “external funding”.
Manchester City
Turnover: £87.0m
Operating profit: –£34.2m
Net debt: £194.4m
Interest payment: £14.4m
The normal rules of business do not apply. The latest accounts show a a turnover of £87m running at an operating loss of £34m and with an accumulated debt to Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al-Nahyan of Abu Dhabi of £194m. Since then, the club has spent £117m on players. But last month Sheikh Mansour converted Manchester City’s entire £305m debt to him into equity.