shoe in
I find it hard to see where England will make the gains in 18 months to be capable of winning a tournament. Maybe Bellingham, Foden or Sancho go up another level but the final third isnât really the issue, it is more so that they are overly defensive and lack a player who is capable of dictating the tempo and just getting on the ball 75+ times a game recycling the ball and making the attacking players life easier by setting a tempo and playing the odd incisive pass.
While Jorginho and Busquets Excell at this, you donât have to be at their level to do it either. Look at the likes of Xhaka, Steven Davis etc who have been bossing international games for a long time. Hard to think of any deep lying midfielder who could come in and do that for them.
The likes of Ward Prowse, Madison etc are more suited to an advanced role like Mount or Bellingham. Loftus Cheek appears to have gone to shit.
They had Michael Carrick available for the bones of 15 years and never trusted him and he hardly played a competitive game, a player of his unfussy technical style would make some difference to them now.
Carrick never demanded tenough for me. He was a tidy enough player but you look at Jorginho play and he is constantly moving to get on that ball.
Itâs not just one player, it has to be a team effort, you have to make angles and show for the ball to play it together.
They are challenging at the top level
I reckon John Stones would absolutely thrive in that role
absolutely this and only this. showing for a wall pass is not showing for the ball. Itâs passing responsibility. As a midfielder your job is to create an out ball for getting the ball through the lines, this means bursting your bollox to have enough space to be comfortable to take it on the half turn, or having enough ability to take it under pressure and get turned and lose a guy. Showing to hit a wall pass just puts the pressure back on your defenders to do something with it. If Rice isnât hiding behind someone he is showing for a wall pass
Agreed but Jorginho is world class at it, there are plenty of lads below that level who have shown they can boss games consistently at that level. You would think that someone as patient on the ball as Carrick getting on the ball 10 yards inside his own half would be far better suited to looking to engineer a few passes between him, the full backs and the likes of Sterling and Mount rather than Maguire carrying the ball out in his laboured manner.
Neither Rice or Phillips have any interest in keeping the ball aside from playing it sideways or backwards. They donât necessarily need Jorginho, but maybe someone who is half way between Phillips and Jorginho in terms of composure on the ball. But they donât really have anyone who could do it. Whatâs Jonjo Shelvey up to these days?
I think you still need someone in midfield in front of him who wants it and will take it on the half turn or with back to goal and tidy things up. It wonât work with the two they have now in front of him
if Stones played in the middle - he is ideal for it. He is comfortable enough to get turned and can split a pass. He has gears too.
Has he ever played there before?
I think itâs more a mindset, English players donât want to get on the ball deep. They get startled about being pressed there. Look at Chiellini and Bonucci, they are always looking to step up and get in position to receive the ball and step out with it. A good team at this level needs to be willing to get on the ball in any area. Carrick never struck me as that type of player, he would be the building block at times but he wouldnât chase up and support like Jorginho does constantly.
England donât look to produce that type of player you see, so for me itâs a cultural thing - would someone like Grealish or Mount etc be more of a sitting player in Italy or Spain?
Guardiola tried him there when his form went to shit at the back but he wasnât in a great place at the time.
Ah come off it, you need to be able to turn on a six pence in the Jorginho role. To do it to a satisfactory level you need to have that sort of elusive presence and speed of thought. Stones has decent distribution for a centre back but thatâs about it. Bonucci is miles more accomplished technically than Stones and I wouldnât dare suggest Bonucci could play that role.
thereâs an element of repression about it too and a fear of expressing themselves. Youâre encouraged to be skilfull and express yourself on the continent, here youâre encouraged to run hard and tackle hard.
My first coach when I was 6 playing u10âs had a motto. I played middle of the field and he told me, son, when you donât have the ball, you love, it, itâs your best friend, itâs an ice cream, youâd do anything to get it back, and then when you get it, you hate it, itâs horrible, kick it as far away from yourself as you can towards their goals
you can either have the ability to turn on a sixpence or control the game with space and movement. Busquets wouldnât turn on a sixpence. Nor Pirlo and they were and are absolutely dominant. Itâs not a hard and fast âroleâ anyway (Jorginho role 
)
You are holding up one of the best in the business as your arguement though.
Steven Davis utterly bossed games against good teams for Northern Ireland as he was comfortable getting on the ball and was given a defined role which plays to his strengths. Same with Xhaka for the last decade with the Swiss, even little Joe Allen has done it for Wales. They mightnât be anywhere close to being as effective as Jorginho but you donât have to be Jorginho to play a deep lying play making role relatively effectively
Mark Noble would be the closest England have to what youâre describing and Iâd wager James Milner would do a better job in there than either of the two that are trusted.
Gareth Barry was another fella that was criminally overlooked by English management for Gerrard and Lampard
Curtis Jones maybe in a few years? Or is he too attacking?