FAO Bankers, accountants etc

[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Maybe, who can say really I suppose but the way I look at it is that one of the main ‘hot topics’ out there with the electorate is freeing up of credit in banks. If they, as the taxpayer, hold shares in the NAMA banks then they can demand that change in Government policy - or theoretically should be able to anyway. No matter what Government is in power.

While there may be some merit in not opening a bank account under strict regulation likely to be there in the NAMA banks, is there not another argument that says strict regulation in terms of credit is good for the consumer as the unregulated banks were throwing money at people in the past which has resulted in negative equity etc.[/QUOTE]

Is it really a hot topic though or one the media pushes? How many people actually want mortgages at the moment. What developers actually want to invest at the moment? Businesses are struggling more so due to reduced demand for goods and services than lack of overdraft facilities imo.

Personally job creation should be far more of an issue. Also think there will be far more pressure on the govt to invest in capital investment projects - e.g. school buildings, rail lines (expect Luas extended in South Dublin), hopefully high speed national broadband network etc. Good reason too - great time to get work done as bound to be less objections and cost will be lower, plus gets numbers off dole queues.

[quote=“KIB man”]Good to know. Have shares there from years back. Brother sold his few years back for €21 a pop. Makes me feel sick that I was in such a drink/drug etc haze to have copied suit.

My argument is that - post NAMA etc it will be difficult for banks to operate with government interference ie banks will be less likely to give mortgages, overdrafts, credit cards to us mere mortals (with good reason as without govt interference they bankrupted themselves). It’s a point Jim Power refers to in his book, that history has taught us that it is even less likely, with govt interference, that banks will release credit to support SME’s etc that the govt have people convinced is the aim of NAMA. Also I believe that all has not yet been revealed when it comes to the banks balance sheets and that the govt may instruct the nationalised banks to concentrate on building up their balance sheets first rather than give out credit. Matt Cooper recently commented on Vincent Browne that no one would again invest in an Irish bank if a true inquiry was held, the panel agreed with him. This is what would seriously worry me for the long term future of this country.

(An example recently - My missus has a full time teaching job in Ireland but was turned down by AIB for a basic credit card despite holding a bank acct with them since she was 10.)

The banks free of NAMA imo once they have settled will be able hopefully to resume lending quicker than those under the watch of the govt and as such steal a march on their rivals if an upturn ever occurs again. For those interested in opening businesses, getting mortgages etc I think it would do no harm to get to know your NAMA free bank manager.[/QUOTE]

I see the general point but the reality is that the banks who are under the NAMA scheme are going to have an awful lot of cheap capital to lend in future years because they have mechanisms for getting it through NAMA. IL&P are still paying high rates on deposits to get funds they can lend out. Those who can cash in dodgy loans for European bonds don’t have the same issue.

[quote=“braz83”]There’s nothing hidden. Everybody recognises that the banks need more capital. There will be an injection of capital, almost certainly from the State, in the near future.

I agree with your general point that banks free of Government interference are in the long-term interest of the country. I think most people other than the hard Left agree with that. Government interference has nothing to do with NAMA though, it’s to do with the amount of shareholding the State holds and the bank guarantee (PTSB are covered by the guarantee). In the case of the two major banks (or at least AIB) the State shareholding will be over 50% after recapitalisation. There will presumably be a ‘third force’, mainly PTSB merged with the remainder of EBS and Irish Nationwide, that will also have significant State shareholding. That’s a temporary necessity, and I would argue that at least AIB should probably be temporarily nationalised (or in an ideal world, turned over the bondholders). I don’t believe there is any residual value in AIB shares. I think the Government is currently of a mindset that it will try to divest itself of those shareholdings as soon as it can, but that will probably take a few years. However, once politicians have that kind of control, there’s a danger they won’t want to give it up.

In the meantime, the Govt is in a quandry, because what’s good for the State’s stake in the banks (not lending more money to floundering SMEs, much of which would never be repaid) is not good for the economy. There are no easy choices here.[/QUOTE]

If there is nothing hidden why are even media outlets that I would respect - Cooper etc recommending that an inquiry would be devastating for future confidence in the banks?( Not a view I share I must say - Since the taxpayer has put 4bn into Anglo and also saved Irish Nationwide, AIB, BOI etc then we have an obligation to know where that money goes)

I think you have misinterpreted my point. The main aim of private enterprises (inc banks) should be to make money for their shareholders within the constraints of regulation. The main aim of government should be to look after the best interests of the State. While there is certainly overlap where the spin offs from private enterprise benefit the State (taxes, jobs etc) there is also a distinction between the two aims. The recent collapse of our banks with the knock on detriment to our society at large only emphasises that there needs to always be a clear difference between what is best for private enterprise and good government. Sometimes having a patsy as financial regulator can be disastrous not just for banks but also our society as a whole.

AIB is a disgraceful institution - Rusnack, DIRT, Sheedy’s antics last year etc. I would argue it should be merged with BOI and both significantly downgraded. Hopefully Banco Santander will come in to the Irish market. Bought Abbey, Bradford and Bingley - cant remember the third in the UK? (Company I worked with won the contract to streamline their IT system)

Yes you are correct, if the State has over 50% control in any business its bound to have a significant say over future policy etc. While some would say the State could not possibly run it any worse than what has transpired, it should take the form of proper regulation of the entire banking system with the aim of creating a competitive but fair playing field. Always the danger like Aer Lingus of political appointments, unnecessary red tape that will add to the banks operating costs and further decrease their ability to lend, strengthen balance sheet and compete when the next upturn occurs.

True there is no easy choices but strategic decisions for this country’s future need to be taken. If this means another two years of pain so be it. Seeing Lenihan’s handiwork and lack of foresight fills me with dread quite honestly.

Can you explain that? Will this cheap capital be needed to simply prop up huge losses in the residential market. If residential property continues to go down - will need more money surely.

Simply think banks with govt on their boards will be a lot slower to act when the market turns than those who can afford to take more of a risk.

As an aside, there must surely be a danger that RBS/British Govt will flog Ulster Bank in the not too distant future?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…

I thought this owl ballbag was dead.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0510/1382815-michael-fingleton-appeal/

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Owl Ballbag.

Good description.