Yes but, as a determinist would say, your personal experiences are causal and so are all events prior, in a long chain which begins at the beginning of time. The reason why everyone doesn’t go for the egg-mayo and onion is because the lineage of events for everyone (everything) is different. The Big Bang didn’t just set one set of cogs in motion, it set all the cogs in motion.
Then you are not a determinist?
And are you responsible for your decisions? Even the bad ones?
A far more interesting thread would be a debate on nature and nuture pal imo.
A clear non-deterministic view. How then do you deal with moral responsibility?
If events are not pre-determined, but are results of luck and opportunity, then is a murderer responsible for his actions? Is he not just a victim of chance?
That’s your opinion. I wouldn’t say I disagree, although it is a topic that is not clearly philosophical nor physical. So far, it is incompletely both. I’ll leave you to begin that thread.
Once we can get over the nature of nature hurdle, we can begin to discuss the principle of the topic. Is there freedom of the will, and are we responsible for our actions?
I am sure you realize that questions like how do you deal with moral responsibility have been analyzed by the greatest minds in history and we are no nearer a conclusion than we were in Hume’s time. I think you have to start with definitions, what do you mean by free will, by morality and by moral responsibility. For the purposes of this discussion I would define free will as whether we can control the various emotions, desires, cravings, etc. that arise and I would say absolute no to that, so no free will. How people act or behave is variable based on cognitive functioning which is almost all based on nature and nurture i.e. Genetics and epigenetics. A kid born with a “normal” brain structure, raised in a loving environment and taught the golden rule by doing as opposed to just saying is unlikely to turn out a criminal, just as a kid born to sociopaths and raised by sociopaths will likely turn out a sociopath. The former is likely to have good cognitive ability and use their developed conscious mind (which I would suggest is not deterministic) to evaluate their emotions, desires, etc. and avoid destructive behavior towards themselves and others. More later with apologies to the roasters that find this a grueling read - maybe the auld ones you would shag thread?
Ah here. Don’t be blaming me ye lot. I asked a simple question about stayin’ in the feckin’ bed. @anon7035031 comes in straight and first and annihilates any humble intentions I had with intellectual H-Bombs. I was happy to start a nice lay sort of a chat, now I’m here copying and pasting the living daylights out of Boards.ie just to keep up. Fexake.
Feel free to fuck off for yourself.
Whoa! What happened here?! You were doing pretty good there for a post or two, with the eggs and the onions and all. The kind of thinking you were embarking there will do you much better in the long run than just heckling (again) on an anonymous forum.
Now, no more of that. Get those grumpy cranks and cogs churning again 
I suppose I do. I’ve had a go at getting inside some of those minds via their writings and if I’m honest I’ve have had limited success (Hume and others). Is it a little arrogant to even attempt it?
I don’t mean anything complicated when I say free will. Am I truly free to write whatever I am writing here? Or is it predetermined? Am I free to pick my nose right now (I am), and to stop when I want to, or was it that once the wheels were set in motion, I never had any choice?
Your original reply gave the impression that you were of a determinism bent, that every event is decided long before you were born. Though now it’s apparent that really it’s quite a macro and personified effort at determinism you’re putting forward (not one that’s wrong, just not really in line with arguments toward my intended meaning for free will)
Something different entirely is the illusive nature of our cognition. The clever and needed property our brain has in fooling us into thinking we are in control, and most of our actions are as a result of conscious thought. It has been proven that this is not the case. Like how the best pirates are those who convince their Captain he is in charge. Anyway, a necessary tangent. This is not what I refer to when I speak about freedom of the will.
I guess it boils down to being able to comprehend the problem. Determinism or not, and then picking a side that feels right. My money is on determinism. Zero moral responsibility, zero accountability. We’re all just results, as are our actions. Some of us scored better roles in the play than others.
Would you be so flippant if you were raped I wonder? Our a family member was murdered? You can twist words all you want but then there’s real life and real events. While we are not free to respond or act in certain situations planning to murder someone , an action that we know has severe consequences for all concerned carries moral responsibility and a choice.
A beautiful example of why the illusion of free will persists.
Fuck this shit, the markets are starting to roll over again… Santa trumps philosophy for now
And I not knowing no focal at all.
Did you ever get to flick that bean?
Yup. Have you ever?
