Listen fella, it doesn’t really matter what you say. One all Ireland is no more or no less valuable than any other, end of story.
You are making yourself look ridiculously stupid now.
I acknowledged that I felt he was probably the best forward in that era you pointed up, I just happen to think it was a poor era for football for the most part of it.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1027168, member: 273”]Listen fella, it doesn’t really matter what you say. One all Ireland is no more or no less valuable than any other, end of story.
You are making yourself look ridiculously stupid now.[/QUOTE]
You’re awfully sensitive about the asterisk hanging over Cork’s triumph in 2010.
I don’t think it’s pertinent, I’ve already acknowledged that Brogan was the best inside forward with Cooper from the time period mentioned, I’ve already acknowledged that he’s a great finisher so I don’t see why bringing up statistics that are irrelevant to the point being discussed changes matters. I made criticisms of certain parts of his game and the standard of football in general when he was at his peak.
How do you square saying Brogan is a great inside forwards with your notion that he’s easily marked out of games?
That’s rather contradictory, I would think?
[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1027179, member: 183”]How do you square saying Brogan is a great inside forwards with your notion that he’s easily marked out of games?
That’s rather contradictory, I would think?[/QUOTE]
No. I don’t think Brogan has ever came in for close attention that other forwards have. I think he played his best football at a time where the standard of the big teams was pretty low. How often has Brogan been double marked for instance?
Most football people see 2002-2004 as a kind of a lull in standard between the excellent Kerry, Meath and Galway and 2005 onwards when Tyrone really took off and Kerry went to another level.
Armagh sneaked in for an AI during that transition. And more power to them, they took their opportunity well much like Tyrone the following year. But that point was the most vocal people were in how shit football had got. Not that I completely agree with that, but that was the narrative of the time, which you wouldn’t remember of course. As ever, it was just evolving.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1027202, member: 273”]Most football people see 2002-2004 as a kind of a lull in standard between the excellent Kerry, Meath and Galway and 2005 onwards when Tyrone really took off and Kerry went to another level.
Armagh sneaked in for an AI during that transition. And more power to them, they took their opportunity well much like Tyrone the following year. But that point was the most vocal people were in how shit football had got. Not that I completely agree with that, but that was the narrative of the time, which you wouldn’t remember of course. As ever, it was just evolving.[/QUOTE]
Armagh were very competitive with both Kerry and Galway in the previous two years and only narrowly lost to them in 2000 and 2001 when they went on to win the All Irelands, they then beat Kerry in the 2002 final and were back again in the 2003 final.
You’re a real traditionalist putting an asterisk after backdoor All Ireland winners. Cork in 2010 did only lose to reigning All Ireland champions Kerry at the provincial stage. Tyrone in 2008 were beaten by Down in Ulster, a Down side subsequently hammered by Wexford.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1027202, member: 273”]Most football people see 2002-2004 as a kind of a lull in standard between the excellent Kerry, Meath and Galway and 2005 onwards when Tyrone really took off and Kerry went to another level.
Armagh sneaked in for an AI during that transition. And more power to them, they took their opportunity well much like Tyrone the following year. But that point was the most vocal people were in how shit football had got. Not that I completely agree with that, but that was the narrative of the time, which you wouldn’t remember of course. As ever, it was just evolving.[/QUOTE]
2002 was one of the best championships I can recall. Armagh couldn’t have done any more than beating Dublin and an on-form Kerry team who were playing superb football. They also beat Tyrone and Donegal. All-Irelands don’t come much tougher.
Dublin and Donegal were shit, Tyrone very young. Kerry were good obviously. And as I say Armagh took their chance well.
They won one title. That’s all that matters.
[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1026763, member: 183”]How has he got on in the All-Ireland finals. semi-finals and quarter-finals he’s played in over the years?
Pretty sure Wexford usually played a sweeper under Jason Ryan?[/QUOTE]
maybe you should qualify your statement then. You stated you didnt recall many teams doing a good job man marking him. I sstated one. You requalified your initial remark. Ryan didnt play a sweeper, he usually played 3 lines of 2 in the forward line.
Just to emphasise my remark, his last 2 games he was inneffective.
Wexford Dublin 2014 - Brogan didnt play.
Wexford Dublin 2012 - Brogan 0-1 free, substituted after 62 mins
substitution by Dublin as star man Bernard Brogan, who has been quiet today by his high standards, is withdrawn
Wexford Dublin 2011 - Brogan 0-2 +0-1 free, substituted after 68 mins
Bernard endured a frustrating time against Graeme Molloy, who kept the pressure on and forced the Footballer of the Year into a series of wides and wayward shots
Wexford Dublin 2010 - Brogan 2-4. 0-1 free. Did very well late on and was the difference in extra time.
At least you didnt be a real pussy and hide behind a dumb rating like that coward @Arseboxin.
Brogan is without dount a class player, and its rare that every brilliant player is brilliant in every game. I was just refuting your point that no one did a good job of man marking him.
[QUOTE=“Gman, post: 1027247, member: 112”]maybe you should qualify your statement then. You stated you didnt recall many teams doing a good job man marking him. I sstated one. You requalified your initial remark. Ryan didnt play a sweeper, he usually played 3 lines of 2 in the forward line.
Just to emphasise my remark, his last 2 games he was inneffective.
Wexford Dublin 2014 - Brogan didnt play.
Wexford Dublin 2012 - Brogan 0-1 free, substituted after 62 mins
Wexford Dublin 2011 - Brogan 0-2 +0-1 free, substituted after 68 mins
Wexford Dublin 2010 - Brogan 2-4. 0-1 free. Did very well late on and was the difference in extra time.
At least you didnt be a real pussy and hide behind a dumb rating like that coward @Arseboxin.
Brogan is without dount a class player, and its rare that every brilliant player is brilliant in every game. I was just refuting your point that no one did a good job of man marking him.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t say nobody did a good job of man marking him. Wexford kept him quiet in a match in 2012 when he was going through a horrible run of form. Big deal.
The true worth of a player is usually shown by how he performs in All-Ireland series matches. Brogan has proved his worth time and again in these matches.
[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1027269, member: 183”]I didn’t say nobody did a good job of man marking him. Wexford kept him quiet in a match in 2012 when he was going through a horrible run of form. Big deal.
The true worth of a player is usually shown by how he performs in All-Ireland series matches. Brogan has proved his worth time and again in these matches.[/QUOTE]
you said you couldnt recall. I helped you recall. I also never mentioned anything about all Ireland series.
You mention 2005, which is generally considered to be Tyrone’s peak. Armagh played three championship matches against them them that year. They drew one, won one and lost one by a point to a dubious free, when they had probably been the better team. Armagh proved they were every bit as good as Tyrone that year, and while we’ll never know for sure, I would have strongly fancied them to beat Kerry in the final had they got through.
You mention Galway as a great team. Who did they beat? What did Meath beat? What did Kerry beat in 1997?
Well done. 
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1027202, member: 273”]Most football people see 2002-2004 as a kind of a lull in standard between the excellent Kerry, Meath and Galway and 2005 onwards when Tyrone really took off and Kerry went to another level.
Armagh sneaked in for an AI during that transition. And more power to them, they took their opportunity well much like Tyrone the following year. But that point was the most vocal people were in how shit football had got. Not that I completely agree with that, but that was the narrative of the time, which you wouldn’t remember of course. As ever, it was just evolving.[/QUOTE]
I’d be of the view that Kerry were in something of a lull period between their All Ireland wins in 2000 and the 6 in a row final run from 2004-09. Kerry had sustained their heaviest every championship defeat when Meath beat them 2-14 to 0-5 in the 2001 semi final and were at a very low ebb going into 2002. There was no Declan O’Sullivan, Paul Galvin or Kieran Donaghy in 2002 and Liam Hassett and Dara O’Cinneide drawing near the end of their careers posed nowhere near the same level of threat in the forward line that, that trio would bring.
Even with all that, Kerry could and should have been out of sight by half time in that 2002 final. They had a 5-6 point lead late in the first half when Eoin Brosnan missed an easy goal chance which would have finished the game off. Fair play to Armagh, they took the chance that presented itself but Kerry and Paidi O’Se were really architects of their own demise in that final, between leaving Seamus Moynihan marooned at full back all year when he was needed out the field and the non-selection all year of Maurice Fitzgearld.
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1027413, member: 377”]I’d be of the view that Kerry were in something of a lull period between their All Ireland wins in 2000 and the 6 in a row final run from 2004-09. Kerry had sustained their heaviest every championship defeat when Meath beat them 2-14 to 0-5 in the 2001 semi final and were at a very low ebb going into 2002. There was no Declan O’Sullivan, Paul Galvin or Kieran Donaghy in 2002 and Liam Hassett and Dara O’Cinneide drawing near the end of their careers posed nowhere near the same level of threat in the forward line that, that trio would bring.
Even with all that, Kerry could and should have been out of sight by half time in that 2002 final. They had a 5-6 point lead late in the first half when Eoin Brosnan missed an easy goal chance which would have finished the game off. Fair play to Armagh, they took the chance that presented itself but Kerry and Paidi O’Se were really architects of their own demise in that final, between leaving Seamus Moynihan marooned at full back all year when he was needed out the field and the non-selection all year of Maurice Fitzgearld.[/QUOTE]
I was at that all Ireland in 2002 with my uncle and he’s friendly with a multiple kerry all Ireland winner from the 1970s. When myself and my uncle met him at half time his first remark to us was ‘easy-peasy’.
Of Kerry’s 21 All Ireland final defeats, 3 have been by a 1 point margin - Offaly 1982, Armagh 2002 and Dublin 2011. All three were games that Kerry were well in charge of with healthy leads and all three were lost primarily as a consequence of losing concentration/retreating into their shells/missing gilt edged chances.