Crowley was an exceptional ball winner, and a very good player, but once he lost his burst of pace he became a very average club player very quickly, while still relatively young. Only to save embarrassment after “convincing” him to play in Bishopstown was he not subbed or dropped more often and another Kerry man James O Se often completely over shadowed him.
At his best he was superb though.
Fermanagh’s run in 2004 included:
A narrow defeat to reigning champions Tyrone in Ulster
Defeating 2001 All Ireland runners-up Meath
Hammering Cork by 7 points
Defeating 2003 All Ireland semi-finalists Donegal
Defeating 20o2 All Ireland and 2003 runners-up Armagh
Being defeated narrowly in a replay by Mayo in the semi-final
They had an exceptional year and their journey to the brink of an All Ireland final is the biggest fairytale in Gaelic football for the past 30 odd years. They have the smallest selection pool in Ireland. The turning point in the game against Armagh came when Enda McNulty picked up a stupid red card.
Ronan Clarke was 19 and playing on one of the most revered defenders of his generation in his first final at senior inter county.
Disappointed in @Manuel Zelaya[/USER] taking a cheap shot at Fermanagh like that, uncalled for in the extreme. That was a fine Fermanagh side (albeit some talented players backed up by absolute mullockers like Liam McBarron) as outlined by [USER=2533]@Il Bomber Destro and there was little shame in losing to them for Armagh. They’d have been as accomplished as the Down team Kerry lost to later in the decade. Actually when you think how Kerry lost out there, it must sicken them as they’d have railroaded that Cork outfit once more in the final, I’m sure it rankles with them they ever left the door open enough for them to sneak that soft All Ireland.
Where’s the cheap shot? The assertion made was that Armagh were probably a better team in 2004 than they were in 2002. I merely disagreed with that assertion. Armagh as has been chronicled in 2002 beat Dublin in the semi final and Kerry in the final and were All Ireland Champions of 2002. In 2004, Armagh were beaten in the quarter final by Fermanagh. A year later in 2005 Fermanagh were out of the championship in two games beaten by 8 points in the first round of the Ulster championship and by 7 points in the first round of the qualifiers.
[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1027179, member: 183”]How do you square saying Brogan is a great inside forwards with your notion that he’s easily marked out of games?
That’s rather contradictory, I would think?[/QUOTE]
he’s the riddler…talks absolute bollox and manages to cover every base… he has not been impressed by brogan though reckons is one of the best inside forwards of last 5 years.
If you’re creating a hierarchy out of All Ireland winning teams, Armagh 2002 are on a par with Cork 2010, Dublin 1995 and Offaly 1982. All four, one off All Ireland winners, all four lost at least one final, all four fell over the line by a point in the final they did win, all four there or thereabouts for a 4-5 year spell with plenty of talk about how they should have won more than one All Ireland, but a haul of just one All Ireland probably commensurate with the level of talent in the team in all four cases.
Cork Dublin and Offaly all fell off shortly after their All Ireland win, Armagh returned to the final the following year and were contenders for years after.
There was a bit of a difference in physique between Cooper and Clarke. Cooper when at his peak was two stone heavier than he was that year. He has said himself that he couldn’t compete physically.
I agree with your point about every team there apart from dublin. 95 was the 3rd final in a row that that Dublin team had been in. the cork team of 2010 was far from a great team. Armagh of 2002 would be better than Cork 2010.
All had a 4-5 year spell when they were contenders. Dublin lost their two finals in 92 & 94, lost to eventual All Ireland champions Derry in semi final of 1993 before they won in 95. Offaly lost a Leinster Final to a last minute goal in 79, a high quality semi final to Kerry in 1980 and a final to Kerry in 1981 before winning in 1982 and Cork lost finals in 2007 & 09 and a semi final in a replay in 2008 before winning in 2010.
As regards Armagh been contenders for years afterwards, you’re indulging in a bit of poetic licence there, they lost to Tyrone the eventual winners in 2003 and 2005, in 2004 there was that bad defeat to Fermanagh. By 2006, there were all but gone, hammered by Kerry by 8 points in that year’s quarter final, winless in 2007 (knocked out in the first round of qualifiers by Derry after losing to Donegal in the first round of the Ulster championship), knocked out by Wexford in 2008 and winless again in 2009 (knocked out by Monaghan in the first round of the qualifiers).
There was but his size didn’t restrict Cooper early on in his career, he got an All Star in 2002.
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1027605, member: 377”]All had a 4-5 year spell when they were contenders. Dublin lost their two finals in 92 & 94, lost to eventual All Ireland champions Derry in semi final of 1993 before they won in 95. Offaly lost a Leinster Final to a last minute goal in 79, a high quality semi final to Kerry in 1980 and a final to Kerry in 1981 before winning in 1982 and Cork lost finals in 2007 & 09 and a semi final in a replay in 2008 before winning in 2010.
As regards Armagh been contenders for years afterwards, you’re indulging in a bit of poetic licence there, they lost to Tyrone the eventual winners in 2003 and 2005, in 2004 there was that bad defeat to Fermanagh. By 2006, there were all but gone, hammered by Kerry by 8 points in that year’s quarter final, winless in 2007 (knocked out in the first round of qualifiers by Derry after losing to Donegal in the first round of the Ulster championship), knocked out by Wexford in 2008 and winless again in 2009 (knocked out by Monaghan in the first round of the qualifiers).[/QUOTE]
The Kerry quarter final was in the melting pot with 5 minutes to go and two points between the teams in what had been one of the most exciting halves of football I’ve seen. If I recall correctlly Andy Mallon made a horrible mistake coming out with the ball from the back and Darran O’Sullivan scored a goal off it. Armagh really should have been much more in front at half time and in the second half Donaghy gave Bellew a roasting but it was still nip and tuck up until the last five minutes when an unforced error put the game to bed.
He still wasn’t as good then as he was in later years. My original point however is that that era of football was no better than any other era.
All 4 are very comparable. All good, none great.
The 02-08 period was of a very high standard. The Cork and Dublin teams that won in 2010 and 2011 would not have won an All Ireland in that period, in my opinion. And neither was Ronan Clarke as good as he was a couple of years later.
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 1027630, member: 2533”]@caoimhaoin
What’s dumb about this post?[/QUOTE]
That Armagh were ever in the running. I was there, they were a spent force. To suggest they were in the running in 06 is dumb
Stop talking horseshit, the consenus around the ground at half time was that this was Armagh’s to lose, they dominated the first half. Kerry got a well improvised goal completely against the run of play and Armagh should have been a lot more ahead than they were at half time. Kerry got on top in the second half, Donaghy caused mayhem in the full forward line, Kernan did nothing to counter it but it was still a close game right until the end when Mallon made a stupid mistake that finished the game with 5 minutes remaining. Before that it was nip and tuck and Armagh there or thereabouts. McDonnell had a really poor day on frees as well and Armagh badly missed McConville who struggled with a back injury that year.
It’s quite obvious you weren’t at that game and it’s even more obvious you know nothing about it.
You should heed the old adage - ‘if you’re explaining you’re losing’ there’s a hell of a lot of explaining away of an 8 point defeat there.
I was at that game as well in 2006 and Kerry completely overran Armagh in the second half from start to finish, scoring something like 2-9 or 2-10 in just 35 minutes football. Paul Galvin was sent off as well so Kerry had to make do with a numerical disadvantage for a chunk of the game as well.