Just after watching RTE’s coverage of Irish match last night and to be honest even by their standards I think it is way too negative. Guys like Richard Sadlier on Newstalk too seem to make a career at having a go and looking to criticise rather than analyse with balance. Have been thinking before about public attitude to sports and I am pretty convinced that some of negativity around football team is due to stance influential guys in media have taken.
Take for instance rugby which is other team sport we seem to have keen interest in on international level. For example our lads were regarded as being brave and had a decent campaign in recent world cup according to numerous papers. Comment in media that I saw/read/heard accepted that result was correct but nonetheless there was very little criticism of individuals or management. My own personal view is that Gatland got tactical battle right and Kidney did not. Many of our players had very poor games and indeed some had poor campaigns. I have seen very little commentary of negative variety though and if it were the football team who had performed in such a way then management and players would have been torn apart. Yet Eamon Dunphy comes out with comments about how our rugby team would have beaten Armenia ( a side who only Russia and ourselves beat) and kids won’t want to play the game. I am a rugby fan and love our national team but I think there is an overly positive attitude to them in media.
I think there is evidence that the analysis of our national teams in their respective sports feeds into national mood towards them. Talking to a few people who were at the game/reading their comments and difference between those who watched match on tv those who attended it and there is clear differencest (with honourbale exceptions such as tase and farmer). In part this can be explained by the fact that those who attended possibly have more of an idea what they are talking about as they had better view and more likely to follow game as opposed to barstoolers but also I think guys like Dunphy have big impact on the game.
As far as the Irish football team goes, winning is ultimately the only thing that the public at large cares about and the Irish team doesn’t win very often. In this qualifying campaign they won 6 times, with victories over Andorra, Armenia, and Macedonia. Which one of these was supposed to get people excited?
None of this means that the team hasn’t done well to get this far, they clearly have. But there won’t be any hype about the team until they qualify or beat big teams.
the problem the football team have is that football is a global sport played by millions- rogbee isnt- its easy enough to do well in the 5/64 nations or get to the last 8 of the world cup while we are competing against countries with huge populations in football- its much harder to be succesful in football so the success junkees/women follow rogbee
There’s definitely an element of unreal expectation based on the fact that most Irish soccer fans follow EPL teams and choose successful EPL teams to follow. They have an unrealistic expectation as a result and don’t think that finishing ahead of our seeding is a good achievement for some reason.
People seem to forget that countries like Armenia and Slovakia, not to mention the former Yugoslavian states didn’t exist when we were qualifying for Germany 88, Italia 90 and the USA. The evidence suggests that many of the new Eastern European countries are improving with each new qualifying campaign which will make it even harder for countries like the Republic. The Nordies and Wales will never see another European or World Cup imo and the likes of Scotland will seriously struggle. The fact that Trap is bringing us so close is to his and his teams eternal credit.
Given our population and the competing sports here it is a phenomenal achievement to be ranked in the top 30 in the world. On any objective analysis the FAI is doing a fantastic job.
Watched some of RTE analysis online last night. Dunphy went too far as he always does. Terms like offensive were thrown around with abandon. Pity noone picks out his nonsense around Seamus Coleman for right back. Moyes has him around third choice for right back at Everton behind the likes of heros like Neville and Hibbert. He plays right midfield where we have options so it isn’t really an issue.
Plenty of barstoolers attend games too if the reports of booing the likes of McGeady are to be believed. The soccer team maybe not as much as rugby attracts bandwagoners too like our own Bandage here.
But while hyperbole from the likes of Dunphy don’t help matters, a lot of football fans do know what they are talking about. The football the Irish team has played over the last few games has been shocking really and luck has been a huge factor in us picking up points. Criticism is well and truly justified. I think the honest bunch of lads lark is well overplayed, sure our pick is limited but look at the pick Slovakia, Bulgaria, Armenia have. With any sort of decent manager we should be finishing ahead of them really.
We did finish ahead of them I thought. [quote=“KIB man, post: 628302”]
Watched some of RTE analysis online last night. Dunphy went too far as he always does. Terms like offensive were thrown around with abandon. Pity noone picks out his nonsense around Seamus Coleman for right back. Moyes has him around third choice for right back at Everton behind the likes of heros like Neville and Hibbert. He plays right midfield where we have options so it isn’t really an issue.
Plenty of barstoolers attend games too if the reports of booing the likes of McGeady are to be believed. The soccer team maybe not as much as rugby attracts bandwagoners too like our own Bandage here.
But while hyperbole from the likes of Dunphy don’t help matters, a lot of football fans do know what they are talking about. The football the Irish team has played over the last few games has been shocking really and luck has been a huge factor in us picking up points. Criticism is well and truly justified. I think the honest bunch of lads lark is well overplayed, sure our pick is limited but look at the pick Slovakia, Bulgaria, Armenia have. With any sort of decent manager we should be finishing ahead of them really.
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Larry people generally laugh at Dunphy, across all strands of our population from my experience.
The fact is people who write about rugby just have a softer approach, its the way it is. I have to agree with your analysis though on certain player not performing and we really let that World Cup Final appearence behind us. The players actually have the balls to say it so i can’t u8nderstand the hacks not calling it. Charlie Mulqueen would have you believing we lost the final by a point.
Soccer people are generally more aggressive in their criticism anyway, and to be honest it probably all boils down to education (or lac of) and the fact that the rugby crowd protect their own product better.
Thats exactly it, we finished above where we were supposed to, thats progress really. I really think some people fail to transfer from the likes of the EPL (for me its entertainment) and International (which is more about National pride). They are 2 very different animals IMO, and should be looked on accordingly.
I think a lot of football supporters in this country know our level and don’t expect us to be topping groups etc. Also I think the majority of football supporters will admit that Trap’s record so far is pretty good. But the problem is the style of football that is being played and it is not easy on the eye. People don’t want to watch it. It is as simple as that really.
When have we ever played football that was easy on the eye though farmer?
On the main point of the thread itself, Sadlier and the likes have just realised that they’ve more chance of succeeding by being controversial. He obviously has his eyes on Dunphys seat at some point. Miguel Delaney is usually at the same craic.
McCarthy played ok football. Under Charlton for instance we were winning high profile matches. We have yet to do that under Trap and I think if that happened, football would get a boost again in this country. Look at the good feeling there was around after the Paris match last year.
I want to make it clear though that I am not excusing this fickle viewpoint but that it is my opinion that is the viewpoint which is there.
We beat France in Paris - is that not high profile? Overshadowed by the handball but our first major away victory since Charltons time, more than McCarthy, Kerr or Staunton achieved.
The problem is that people have unrealistic expectations of our players though. How many times have people said that Andrews/Whelan should be dropping deep off the ball and taking it off the defenders and looking to set a tempo, which in theory they may have a point but in reality neither ever have or ever will do this at club level and it is not part of their natural game. Same with people getting bent out of shape and saying it is an outrage that Long isn’t starting, yet they completely gloss over the fact that Long and Doyle are very similar players in terms of what they offer to the team and the way in which they play. Cox is far more suited to the withdrawn role but people just seem to think that it is a case of playing Long and Doyle and asking one to play a little deeper, unfortunately that isn’t how football works and it shows that little or no appreciation of tactics or the roles in which a player can operate.
I often wonder do some people just look at the teamsheets in the EPL/Championship and see that a lad is playing or scoring goals and judge them on that and that alone. Darren Gibson would be more cases in point, people were clamouring to have Gibson in the side a couple of years ago based only on the fact that he was on the books of Man United and scored a couple of goals in the Carling Cup, same with James McCarthy for Wigan, had a big reputation at 17, joined Wigan where he plays a free role in front of two holding midfield players with limited enough success yet again people are roaring to have him in the side despite the fact his game is not suited to ours at this point in time and he is no where near good enough yet to be building a team around.
I think some people who watch Ireland matches think setting up a team and playing football is as easy as playing a game of Pro Evolution
We beat Spain at home in quailfying for the 1990 World Cup. We also had victories over England and Italy in major tournaments, and had the whole buzz around getting to the quarters in the 1990 World Cup.
Another problem is that rugby was pretty shit back then. Constant wooden spoons in the Five Nations. Compare that to now, and the fact that Ireland are competing in that tournament at least, as well as the whole Celtic Tiger surge of the Heineken Cup and Munster rugby, and that is where the sport ‘followers’ in this country are showing their allegiances.
By not playing for Ireland, Gibson, McCarthy, Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland have somehow become far better players at various points in the past couple of years. Similar situation with Seamus Coleman now.
It is. I should not have excluded that. And there was a buzz in the country for a while after that. But the impact of that was diminished by the fact that we went out.