Joe Kernan

Has resigned as Armagh manager.

Not really surprised. They haven’t really progressed over the last couple of years which must be frustrating for him given the level of preparation he prides himself on. Quite a transformation in Armagh’s fortunes he presided over though and he brought expectation to the county.

I’m a big fan of his as a coach and a person.

Fair play for all his achievements - the All Irelands with Crossmaglen are probably the equal of Armagh’s one. 6 Ulster titles in 9 years is a super record given how difficult it’s traditionally been to retain that crown. However, the fact they didn’t win a 2nd All Ireland probably ensures they won’t be classed as a truly great team.

Really like Kernan. Great manager imo.

Possibly not remembered forever as a truly great team but they’ve been awesome and have completely changed the attitude in Armagh to winning trophies. Kernan deserves immense credit for that and he’s not a moaner or a complainer.

Who is Joe Kernan? Some bogger!

Bit late on this but I want to say that I never liked Kernan nor never rated him as being one of the great managers. He won one All-Ireland despite having arguably the finest bunch of players over the last five years. I also took umbridge with people referring him, and Armagh, as being in the top three in the country when Armagh didn’t do anything in years. I particularly looking at Brolly here…

Only one All Ireland? It’s a tough ask Farmer, something Armagh hadn’t done in years. He has raised the bar for that team and he did the same with Crossmaglen.

Wasn’t he very lucky altogether to inherit such a class team that were so much better than anything before? He won 3 club All Ireland titles in 4 years with a team that had done nothing in Armagh, never mind Ulster, never mind Ireland for the past 10 years. Was that lucky too?

I cannot fathom how you can “take umbridge” with the man’s credentials given everything he has achieved. Did you ever stop to consider that those players might seem so fine because of the training, coaching and preparation they got at club and county level?

I love it when farmer makes an absolute show of himself on the forum. That latest one probably goes straight into his personal top 5. Rocko has pretty much made the points I was going to make about Kernan in response already.,The Crossmaglen achievements are astounding and taking Armagh to an All-Ireland is also fantastic. Coming from a minnow county like Leitrim you’d think farmer would know about how difficult it is to make a breakthrough and dislodge the likes of Kerry. It takes a special group of players and a special manager. It’s crazy to suggest Kernan was anything other than a top class manager but then again farmer is nuts.

I hate it when Bandage and Rocko climb into bed together on the forum

Look at the players at his disposal since 2002. Bellew, McNulty, Mallon, McGeeney, Hughes, McCann, McGrane, McConville, the McEntees, McKeever, McDonnell, Clarke, Marsden etc etc yet he only managed to win ONE All Ireland with them. That cannot be overlooked.

Bottled it against Tyrone twice, Fermanagh and Kerry

You are calling him top class so judge him by the highest standards. All Irelands - not Club Championships

farmerinthecity wrote:

I hate it when Bandage and Rocko climb into bed together on the forum

Look at the players at his disposal since 2002. Bellew, McNulty, Mallon, McGeeney, Hughes, McCann, McGrane, McConville, the McEntees, McKeever, McDonnell, Clarke, Marsden etc etc yet he only managed to win ONE All Ireland with them. That cannot be overlooked.

Bottled it against Tyrone twice, Fermanagh and Kerry

You are calling him top class so judge him by the highest standards. All Irelands - not Club Championships

I’m judging him by both county and club achievements.

Do you disregard All Ireland Club titles or something? If you do then you don’t really know anything about the GAA. It’s a supreme effort to take Crossmaglen to 3 All Irelands and to suggest otherwise is ludicrous in the extreme.

The Armagh players you listed are no better as a group than the crop of players playing for the other main challengers. Remember many of them had been part of sides that failed to go the final and win it such as McGeeney, McGrane, the McEntees etc - I’m thinking of the Kerry defeat in 2000 for example. It was when Kernan took over that they went on and won the All Ireland in 2002 and he deserves tremendous credit for that.

To accuse them of being bottlers also shows an embarrassing lack of knowledge. Tyrone were the better side in 2003 yet save for Conor Gormley’s last ditch block on McDonnell Armagh could have sneaked it. Getting so close to victory despite being outplayed is a sign of force of will and mental strength rather than the opposite.

The game in 2005 was the most intense football game I’ve ever had the pleasure of attending. It could have gone either way and Tyrone simply edged it through no fault of Armagh’s. That sometimes happens in sport - two great competitors playing at the top of their game and one eventually scrapes a victory - and it doesn’t naturally follow that the other is a bottler.

Think of the Raymond Van Barneveld/Phil Taylor World Darts Final last January for example.

That post has more than a hint of bias towards Kernan

Firstly I am not dismissing Club Championships but there is such a step up to County football. If you are going to talk about Kernan as one of the greats then you have to look at his All Ireland record.

Kernan didn’t instill a winning habit in them. Is that what you are suggesting? Ludicrous. The fact of the matter is that they only won one All Ireland. It was a tremendous game against Tyrone in 2005 but they lost it. They lost the All Ireland in 2003 to Tyrone as well. They lost to Fermanagh in 2004 and Kerry in 2006 in the quarters. That’s some winning mentality…

I’m sorry - if you only win one All-Ireland with thsoe players in five years then you cannot be called great. Good yes but not great.

I agree with Bandage and Rock67 on this one. I think farmer is yet another person who has become obsessed with the good v. great argument. As I mentioned on this forum previously, the good v. great debate is an Eamonn Dunphy invention and I fookin hate when it is trotted out in support of a weak argument. Bandage and Rock67 have said it all here really but if Armagh are not in the top three teams in the country then please tell us who are.

He will not go down as a great manager because he only won one All Ireland - what is wrong with saying that?

And when did Dunphy ever say that?

Armagh would probably be in the top three based on the fact that they are the last team to win the All Ireland since Tyrone and Kerry - that doesn’t mean that you jerk yourselves off to Kernan

If I am a puppet of Dunphy then you are a puppet of Brolly with your blinkered view of Ulster football

Dublin is the top team in the country, always has been.

farmerinthecity wrote:

I hate it when Bandage and Rocko climb into bed together on the forum

Look at the players at his disposal since 2002. Bellew, McNulty, Mallon, McGeeney, Hughes, McCann, McGrane, McConville, the McEntees, McKeever, McDonnell, Clarke, Marsden etc etc yet he only managed to win ONE All Ireland with them. That cannot be overlooked.

Bottled it against Tyrone twice, Fermanagh and Kerry

You are calling him top class so judge him by the highest standards. All Irelands - not Club Championships

farmer, with all due respect the vast majority of players you listed above will not go down in history as great players. I would class McDonnell and Clarke as great players and the rest of them are great competitors.

Andrew McCann better than Tomas O’Se?

Bellew better than Moynihan?

McKeever better than Eoin Brosnan?

One of the McEntees better than Stephen O’Neill?

McGrane better than Dara O’Se or Sean Cavanagh?

I don’t think that Armagh side’s talents on paper are comparable to the reservoirs of talent their main competitors had over the same timeframe.

The great achievement of Kernan was moulding them into a formidable unit and leading them to their first All-Ireland title EVER.

All this after he’d won 3 All Irelands with Crossmaglen.

They also dominated the Ulster Championship in an unprecedented manner under Kernan.

The good vs great thing comes from Dunphy’s protestations that Platini was a good player, not a great player when he completely dominated the European Championships in 1984.

To say Armagh haven’t been in the top 3 teams in Ireland under Kernan is also a ridiculous statement to be added to the litany of other ones you’ve made previously.

Post edited by: Bandage, at: 2007/07/31 18:06

Ciaran Whelan is the best

Farmer you’re miles wrong on this one.

You completely fail to acknowledge the structures of the GAA when suggesting that a player can’t be great if he never wins an All Ireland. Can crappy little counties like your own not produce great players or great managers? Do you ignore the club form of soccer players when assessing their greatness too? Is it only the world cup that counts?

Bandage made all the points I could ever need to make on this thread. You’re talking about a bunch of guys who you claim are excellent footballers but who had won nothing at either club or county level until Kernan guided them to success at both levels. Just because they have come up against other great players and teams doesn’t make it any less of an achievement.

Joe Kernan transformed football in Armagh and that cannot be disputed. I actually find it very humorous that you can even begin to “take umbridge” at praise for the man. Get down off your fecking high horse ya fool.