After seeing Munster take a beating from Leinster tonight it’s time to debate whether Munster rugby is in serious decline. I know some posters reckon it’s partly down to the coach but there are issues with the quality of player coming through.
Looking at the pack first they’re taking a long time in bringing players through. This has been their way for a while (think of how long Horan and O’Callaghan waited in the wings) but the standard of Irish rugby has grown and it’s no longer acceptable to see the likes of Buckley struggling to make his breakthrough before he turns 30. Ryan is 24 or so, not that old but he’s played very little rugby for a guy of that age and he’s not a world class prop in waiting or anything. Varley is 25 or 26 and has promise but compare that to the likes of Heaslip/Healy and the level they’re operating at.
In the backs they’ve brought through Earls but he still looks a bit naive to me. He gets tackled into touch an awful lot and while he has promise (and will be excellent) they’re relying a bit heavily on a player who is far from the finished article. Sticking to the Irish talent they had Deasy sitting on the bench today - that’s not a great option to have. Hurley came onto the scene a good few years ago, went backwards, hasn’t really improved and finds himself back in the reckoning.
They’ll still produce some players of quality but you’d wonder where the next generation are coming from and will they have to replace some of the old guard with the mediocrity that’s on the fringes at present?
You make some good points, but they are still after making the semi finals of both competitions.
They need to get in Argie or French props, props is where they are most in trouble. There is a bit of talent coming through, but they need coaching. There is talent behind the scrum and its not the major problem, a good pack is first and foremost in rugby.
Leinster are simply a level above Munster right now, i don’t think thats a way to judge how Munster are overall. Leamy and Donnacha Ryan are huge losses, had they both been fit Munster could easily be in HEC Final.
The team is growing old together, thats always a problem. The coaching is suspect in ways, but he needs time as well, he’s well liked and he hasn’t a huge amount of luck.
The Lions tour hurt Munster players as well, and has to be considered when commenting on them.
There may not be trophies in the next year or two, but they still be competitive and there has to be a natural transition. Toulouse went through a similar period a few years ago. I’m not overly worried to be honest.
Leamy and Ryan are losses alright but Ryan is another lad who is still trying to get into the side on a regular basis and he’s 26 already. Plenty of years left for a forward (especially if he’s not in the back row) but it’s another example of Munster failing to get a guy into their team quick enough in my opinion.
I’ve no idea how many Heineken Cup appearances he has but not an awful lot for someone of his age.
I personally don’t rate Larrie Fisher too highly as a forwards coach and feel he has been to the detrement of munster, Mcgahan looks to be a decent coach in the making and is well regarded…I must say bringing in the likes of sami touitoupi(sp) looks to be a bit of a backward step as he stikes me as a bit of a mersonary and Johnnie Murphy is a solid player but he isn’t going to take munsters baclplay to another level, there is little doubt about it munster are now number two in ireland and it will be a while before they are back on top as leinster seem to have some very good players coming through their ranks in the likes of McFadden, Kearney and Conway to name three off hand…Presume Sean Cronin will be back at munster for the 2011/2012 season
Options are limited in the backs and unproven- when ROG goes there is a big gap, I can’t see Warwick hanging around Munster for the longterm, he’s been away from home now for a long time and may move to France for a payday before he heads back to Oz.
Mafi has regressed and Howlett is well past it now, J De V gone home. Not a lot of promise behind the scrum and I don’t know if it gets much better up front… It must have frightened Muncster supporters to see the Leinster scrum eating ye alive.
Leinster have successfully managed to blood a few players every year. There was massive turnover between our 06 team in Toulouse compared to the team that was out last night and a few weeks back. There has been much better use of Academy players and better integration into the team.Our problem is the exit of most of the coaching and management team- gone are Cheika, Gaffney, Whitaker, McQuilkan to name a few. That’s where our difficulty lies.
Its the difficulty of letting a great team grow old together, they all come to the end of the road around the same time. You could arguably see Horan, Hayes, Wallace, O’Driscoll, Quinlan, Stringer, Rog, Howlett all going in the next 12 months
Hopefully the demise of the Munshter bandwagon will also lead to the end of Billy fucking Keane’s witterings in the national press. The sooner, the better.
Here’s to Ronan O’Turnstile getting trundled over in every game he plays before he retires.
Here’s to asking all the cunthook Leinster people I know who are ‘diehard’ Munshter fans how they’re doing as they languish at the bottom of their future european cup groups.
Loienster will die harder, but hopefully Eamon Ryan will get his way and the money will dry up.
this munster squad will never beat this leinster squad again, leave aside that they are just simply an inferior side and you then have to deal with leinster having it over them mentally, just as it was in reverse up to a couple of seasons ago.
munster cant handle them, end of story.
you would have to question leinster though in that they have one heineken cup and seem to be content to sit on that and do little more than perform anyway close to their maximum against munster and munster only.
for the best squad in europe and the best this island has ever seen thats disappointing. munster never had those riches when they were at the top and its disappointing to see leinster let theirs go to waste.
maybe a new coaching set up might change that.
[quote=“Piles Hussain, post: 468902”]
Hopefully the demise of the Munshter bandwagon will also lead to the end of Billy fucking Keane’s witterings in the national press. The sooner, the better. [/quote]
Not a hope, the cunt will just go back to talking about Kerry.
The old days of Munster forwards having the better of Leinster is over. Leinster had better backs but if they didn’t have much ball then it didn’t matter. Now they have a far superior front 8 and thats going to see them beating Munster for a while.
Sadly for Leinster though, their best 8 is enough to push Munster around but not the likes of Toulouse and thats why they were going to be in trouble in the HEC SF.
I’m still not convinced by Cian Healy in the HEC but in a Leinster V Munster/Ulster/Connaught there is only 1 top team.