Northern Bank Robbery

1

Written by a guy on the HB:

  1. A very large amount of money was stolen from the Northern Bank

  2. Immediately after the money was stolen, the IRA was blamed for the robbery

  3. Approximately 1 month later, some houses were raided, and “allegedly”, money was found at one house, that had come from the Northern Bank Robbery

  4. A senior SF person was arrested and questioned in relation to that raid

  5. Another house was raided, where a person was “allegedly” burning money, “believed” to have been part of the proceeds of the Northern Bank Raid

  6. A weapon, “allegedly” an AK-47, and some ammunition “alledgedly” were also found

  7. The Gardai made a statement later on last year “alledging”, that they were close to proving that the money found in Cork was traceable to the Northern Bank Raid

  8. A senior advisor to the Taoiseach, Mr Phil Flynn was arrested “alledgedly” attempting to participate in the buying of a Bulgarian bank, and “alledgedly” being involved in the laundering of money believed to have come from the Northern Bank Robbery

  9. The Minister for Justice made statements on a number of occasions “alledging” that a political opponent i.e. Sinn Fein, were using money from the Northern Bank raid to fund political activity.

Now, do you see what the problems are here.

Ask anyone in Ireland, who robbed the Northern Bank, and who benefitted from it, and I imagine you will be told that the IRA robbed it, and Sinn Fein benefitted from it.

Does that make it the truth however ?

Ask anybody what film the words “play it again sam” comes from, and what would you say ?

Ask anyone what TV series the words “Beam me up Scotty comes from”, and what would you say ?

I’d imagine you would say “casablanca” and “star trek”

And on both occasions you’d be wrong. But it has passed into common acceptance that this is correct.

The reality is

  1. It is impossible to say what was stolen from the Northern Bank, outside of what the bank themselves say was stolen. So far, the only evidence that anything was stolen, was 60,000 pounds sterling, found in a PSNI sports club.

Some people have written that this money was planted.

How many people honestly think, that Republicans, IRA or from one of the other Republican groups, could walk into a PSNI sports club, with a bag large enough to fit 60k in it, remove tiles and place it behind them, and walk back out again, unseen, unheard or undisturbed ?

  1. The IRA was blamed, on the basis that Hugh Orde believed that no other group was capable of organising such a robbery

The reality is, that since that time, there have been a large number of bank and building society robberys in the 26 counties, which were carried out by criminal gangs, which displayed the same level of meticulous planning. They each had one simple thing in common. They kidnapped members of bank officials families, and the officials themselves were then complicit in the robbery.

Its hardly rocket science to be honest, but the success of such “tiger raids”, shows that criminal elements are just as capable of such a robbery, and the IRA are not the only group which could have carried the Northern Bank raid out.

  1. The house that was raided in Cork, was owned by a legitimate moneylender, who would have reason to have large amounts of money on their premises. If the Gardai, and the Minister of Justice was very sure in his press statements at the time, have evidence to prove that the money found in Cork was the illegal proceeds of crime, why has NOBODY been charged with any crime in relation to that money.

  2. Why has the senior SF person arrested at that time, allegedly for being involved in money laundering, not been charged with anything, almost 21 months after his initial arrest and detention.

  3. “IF” someone was burning money as alleged, why has no-one yet been charged with a. hindering a criminal investigation b. destroying evidence c. defacing legal tender ?

Who was the person “burning money”.

Are we to honestly believe, that 21 months after the largest bank robbery in the world at the time, someone was “allegedly” destroying the evidence in Cork, and not one newspaper, television station, radio station, internet media outlet, word of mouth, gossip in the area etc has ever mentioned a name of the person “alledgedly” burning money in Cork ?

  1. As far as the “AK-47” and the “ammunition” story goes.

Why has no-one yet been charged with “weapons offences” in relation to this ?

Now, at this point, people will start talking about ongoing investigations, and possible future court cases.

Think about this.

The “alleged” weapons offence, happened in Cork, and had nothing to do with the Northern Bank raid. Therefore it is a matter for the Irish authoritioes only, and any charges in relation to it, do not have to wait for any other investigation.

So why has no-one been charged with having a gun and ammunition ?

Why don’t we even know the name of this person “allegedly” caught with an automatic rifle ?

  1. Immediately after the Cork raids, the Gardai made a statement, and the Minister for Justice made a statement, saying that the money was part of the proceeds of the NRB.

21 months later… and nothing …

Not one five pound note yet…

Not one 5 dollar bill yet …

Not one 5 euro note yet …

Nothing … not a red cent has been conclusively linked to the NRB.

Nothing.

Every so often there is a statement, saying that An Gardai are “close” to making a breakthrough…

Are we honestly to believe, that despite employing the best forensic techniques in the world, that in 21 months, the Gardai are still not in a position to “conclusively” prove that money found in Cork came from the NRB

Is that credible ?

Have the Gardai not considered bringing officials from the NRB to Cork (or Dublin), and shown them the money, and asked … was this yours ?

Credible ?

  1. Phil Flynn has been through the Irish Court system.

Not one scrap of evidence was provided to the court that he was in any way linked to money laundering, buying banks in Bulgaria, or anything else in relation to the NRB, or “alleged” money laundering in Cork

  1. Not one scrap of evidence has been provided by the Gardai or the Minister, to prove that Sinn Fein have ever used money from the NRB for political purposes

How far are we stretching criedibility here lads ?

Be honest…

Are people honestly saying that the largest bank robbery in the world (at the time)

that the largest money laundering operation in this State…

that weapons offences …

that offences committed by a senior government advisor…

that a major political party is using illegal funds to run its party operations…

is all being swept under the carpet… and not one whistleblower has given evidence of this to the media

Please …

2

why go to so much trouble to make a case for the IRA.

none of us know whether or not they did rob the bank; but the finger of suspicion is pointing firmly at them - and justifiably so, we have a right to be suspicious

they are a bunch of murderers, why plead their case?

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  1. I care because the transparency of the media in a democracy is of great importance. There are serious questions to be asked of the media’s reporting of the Northern Bank robbery. It is not the first time Michael McDowell has fed information to various newspapers in this country with the aim of convincing them of the wrongdoings of political opponents. The media should never be a slave to any party or individual, though most newspapers will have a preferred ideology.

  2. The finger of suspicion is only pointing at the IRA through the “evidence” leaked to the media by those with an agenda to blame republicans. In contrast to what you say, there is no justification for this suspicion - it is orchestrated by powerful people with powerful agendas.

4

This might surprise many of you but I agree totally with those points. Raising questions about the case does not mean youre an IRA apologist. Im on record here before as saying that I treat anything said by the RUC/British Government with the utmost suspicion theyre an occupying force in my country so forgive me for not having that element of trust in my relationship with them. In todays newspapers we see them implicated in many murders of innocent Irish people throughout the 32 counties going back to the 1970s. The current British Government is also being very uncooperative to the enquiry investigating these atrocities with regard to providing documentation and records from that time.

That said sometime forum member cullyeile has been heard to contend that Britain are a force of good in Ireland trying gamely to nullify the IRA!

As for the Irish Governments part in this it seemed like a personal crusade by Herr McDowell to blacken Sinn Feins name given their upsurge in support was eating into the tiny vote the PDs have managed to attain. I am not a Sin Fein voter by the way.

5

no evidence to suggest that the media has not been transparent. your powerful people theory is rubbish. what motive had mc dowell to blacken sinn fein. besides i dont really care if SF/IRA is getting a “hard time” in the media - they are scum imo

They are not “an occupying force in my country,” they are a legitimate police force in a soverign nation. your opinions belong in the 1970’s.

Is it not ironic that rocko is pointing out how untrustworthy the media is (and you agree with him) and yet you are using recent newspaper reports to decry the NIPD! please be consistent. who do you not trust, the ruc or the media?

6

They are not “an occupying force in my country,” they are a legitimate police force in a soverign nation. your opinions belong in the 1970’s.

Is it not ironic that rocko is pointing out how untrustworthy the media is (and you agree with him) and yet you are using recent newspaper reports to decry the NIPD! please be consistent. who do you not trust, the ruc or the media?

[/quote]

In this instance the media are quoting extracts of an independent enquiry into these murders which has found widespread collusion.

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There is plenty of evidence to suggest they have not been transparent, as you’d know if you read my first post properly. The media decided that the IRA were guilty without any investigation of the facts or waiting for real evidence. They published what they were told by McDowell, as with so many more incidents over the years, and have ended up blindly following him to nowhere. 2 years ago people were laughed at for suggesting that nobody should be judged on the basis of Northern Bank allegations until the real facts came out. Now we find out slowly but surely that these facts will probably never materialise.

I’m currently reading an absolutely superb book on Australia by John Pilger called “Secret Country.” It discusses in great detail how the Rupert Murdoch led media have sustained attacks against left wing politicians over the years to ensure they will never get power. They were also complicit in the forced collapse of an Australian labour government in the 1970’s - these are matters of public record by the way, it’s not conspiratorial or speculation.

McDowell has 2 reasons to blacken Sinn Fein:

  1. He despises left-wing politics. He tries to blacked socialist politicians in the same manner.
  2. He hates Sinn Fein because of the demonisation of his grandfather in republican history. His grandfather was Eoin MacNeill who unsuccessfully tried to call off the 1916 Rising and McDowell is bitter over the damage to his republican reputation.
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9

Brilliant ballox - every time there’s a credible argument put up to your shite you come back with nothing.

10

the ira are the only crowd with the organisation to carry out that particular robbery

11

That’s not even close to being true. There have been plenty of similar crimes in Dublin in the intervening period with no IRA involvement whatsoever. Just because the scale of money allegedly taken is large doesn’t mean the operation was particularly spectacular. There have been plenty of similarly executed “tiger kidnappings” in Dublin since.

12

Rocko do you personally believe that the IRA carried out the robbery? Leave all other stuff aside…

I do

13

Thats because Dublin’s gangland is much more sophisticated than that of the North. The only “gang” organised that well in the North is the 'ra. Thats why the robberies in Dublin are not blamed on the ira, because there are other gangs down here that are capable of it.

…unless of course you are suggesting that the Dublin gangs are carrying out raids up north, which is less than likely as there are planty of local targets, why go north?

Check-mate to the 'ox

14

[glow=red,2,300]hey, rock. whats the matter? has the cat got your tongue.[/move

bandage, you are a loyalist. you only support celtic as a smokescreen. watching the michael collins movie doesnt make you an expert on irish history

your family have a long association with the orange order

15

I watched The Wind That Shakes The Barley twice too though.

Point proven. Case closed. I win.

16

I genuinely don’t. I have absolutely no reason to believe they had any involvement in the robbery. There is no evidence to suggest they did other than leaks of suspicions to the media.

My views might get dismissed for this but if I had to guess who did it I’d say it was MI5 or MI6 seeking to undermine the credibility of the IRA. People often view this as conspiracy theory nonsense but ask yourself what the purpose of these organisations is. There would be no need for secret service agents in the 6 counties if you didn’t expect them to muddy the waters from time to time. Nobody should believe that this is beneath the security forces and to be honest they seem the most likely candidate to me.

My brother rang Michael Woods TD just after the robbery when people first started suspecting the IRA. It was eleven o’clock on a Friday night and he found his number in the phone book so he rang up and told him that MI5 did it. Woods asked him if he had any evidence and the brother said he just had suspicions and talked to him about collusion. Woods stayed on the phone for an hour talking about the 6 counties and British interference in the Irish state but didn’t change his mind that he reckoned it was probably the IRA. Fair play to him though, he was prepared to argue his case for an hour on a Friday night to a drunken fool.

P.S. I’m not a Sinn Fin supporter or voter but I think they are an important voice to be heard.

17

I have no doubt in my mind that the robbery was carried out by the IRA. I think the Provo’s have done a deal to let this all slip away to keep the peace process ticking along.

Just want to come back to Bandage’s point about the British being an occupying force in his country. Who is to say that the island of Ireland should be one nation? There are plenty of other islands out there that are not one nation. If anyone consolidated this island into a single nation it was the British - before that we had several kings and tribes all independent of eachother, the British consolidated the country in a single ruling force. They chose in the 1920’s to dissolve this single ruling into two separate nations, their choice. I am not a loyalist or a unionist and would like to see a United Ireland, however I think the only way we can ever have a United Ireland is to respect the various cultures on this island, that means if the Orange Order want to march down O’Connell Street they should be allowed to do it with bells on. The recent Dublin riots served no purpose except to vindicate the concerns the Loyalist community that they would be persecuted in a United Ireland. I’m all for a United Ireland but if we want the six counties to rejoin the other twenty-six we need take them with all the Unionist traditions.

SF/IRA are scum and not to be trusted, however I do respect their anti-drugs stance. They’ve been dishing out a few beatings to drug dealers in my childhood hometown lately.

18

The orange order should fook off, back to the north.

i dont think all cultures should be respected; its attitudes like yours that have meant that this country is overrun by all sorts of vermin; and our identity is being seriously diluted. i think a healthy degree of selection and social grading should continue to be used (lets put it this way: everyone is NOT equal, i mean a romanian is not as important as an American).

having said that, i think Ireland’s call is a great anthem

19

That post is golden. Quality.

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[quote=briantinnion ]
I have no doubt in my mind that the robbery was carried out by the IRA. I think the Provo’s have done a deal to let this all slip away to keep the peace process ticking along.[/quote]

You are entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day you have to be aware that your theory is just speculation. I have considered that and I believe that security forces are a more likely suspect (remember the money found in the PSNI leisure centre) but I do accept that your theory is a possibility.

A couple of points here:

  1. Brian Boru unified the country.
  2. The whole world consisted of empires and city states years ago so it’s not reasonable to expect a united democratic entity to govern an island 800 years ago.
  3. Agreed that the British imposed a single ruling force - they also gave us our county structure and turned five provinces into four
  4. The Irish asserted their right to resist this occupation and foreign imposition of rules and rulers over the following 800 years. This was not always nationwide but it was always in the cause of the nation as a whole - i.e. the Wexford rebellion did not seek to free Wexford alone, it aspired to liberate the country with victory in Wexford a hoped-for catalyst.
  5. Our right to self-determination was therefore a mandate as a nation, not as part of the old provincial structures.
  6. The British didn’t decide to divide the country on their own. Regrettably our politicians failed us and complied with their wishes.
  7. I agree that we have to be more tolerant of everybody’s culture - I include both unionist backgrounds and more recent immigrants in that.
  8. The Love Ulster parade was not a real example of culture. The culture of the people of the six counties is largely the same as that of ourselves, with some Scottish traditions in the mix. You have to be careful of how you define culture - and triumphalism and ethnic superiority are not valid cultures. Therefore I don’t respect the KKK for having a “culture” - they may have a political ideology (that is absurd and horrific in my opinion, but they are entitled to have it) but that is not the same thing as a culture. I will respect the rights of any unionist to exercise his faith, traditions and anything else anywhere on this island as long as it does not involve discrimination against other people. That is where an ideology starts becoming dangerous and requires moderation. I have no time for idiots on either side who engage in sectarianism.

All that said the Love Ulster riots were silly. They weren’t organised or participated in by members of Sinn Fin or the IRA - as widely acknowledged by security sources on both sides of the border. I do think you should do some research into the organistation though as they have been involved in some terrible incidents in the past and are not an example of a tolerant organisation that we should be encouraging.