Johny and the guys excite you, it was just an observation, relax.
Just wondering what your point was.
[quote=“Mac”]Sorry Kev, I never realised this was a competition.
I’ll be sure to throw some random nonsense statements into my debates in future with no substance and then accuse the other side of being beaten when I’m questioned. Maybe MBB was right all along 
[/quote]
Address my explanation of the way ireland play. If you don’t do this it shows you are running away from it.
And while your at it, throw in a few alternatives to Hayes and O’ Leary, and why you’d play them.
Thanks.
[quote=“caoimhaoin”]Address my explanation of the way ireland play. If you don’t do this it shows you are running away from it.
And while [COLOR=“Red”]your at it, throw in a few alternatives to Hayes and O’ Leary, and why you’d play them.
Thanks.[/quote]
:mad:
sorry english teacher;)
[quote=“caoimhaoin”]Address my explanation of the way ireland play. If you don’t do this it shows you are running away from it.
And while your at it, throw in a few alternatives to Hayes and O’ Leary, and why you’d play them.
Thanks.[/quote]
Christ what an anal arsehole you are.
Ireland moving to a more expansive game plan - we have some of the best backs in Europe (from both provinces :guns:). A blind man could see we need to move to a more expansive game. Had Eddie O’Sullivan not ignored Michael Cheika for a few years we probably would have moved a lot earlier. Kidney is moving us towards this albeit in his conservative way - this isn’t a bad thing as things won’t change overnight but if you compare the Argentina match last year to the way we’re playing 12 months later it’s a huge improvement and Kidney must take credit for this.
The South Africans were offside for a good bit of the day and Nigel Owens repeatedly warned Smit about this. Every time they kicked their runners were in front of the kicker. He never penalised them for it but must have warned them 4 or 5 times. When it was clear that the ref wasn’t going to penalise them O’Leary should have realised that the least he could do was vary the game plan.
A trademark of what Kidney has brought to the team is that while our defence has been excellent we’ve got better at defending further out the field, like in Cardiff last year we defended the half way line like it was the try line. That’s why I can’t understand why O’Leary continued to kick poorly when either Sexton or Kearney (or even Earls) would have got more ground out of it. He was kicking from about 10 metres from the line and barely making it to the 22. Fair enough if he’s trying to protect Sexton but he brought unnecessary pressure back on the Irish team. And I don’t think anyone can defend his kick away on 78 mins when we could quite easily have recycled the ball for 2 mins and closed the game out rather than having to defend like mad men.
On the point of not moving it quickly, I agree in part with what you say about the SA defence but a lot of the time we had Bowe, O’Driscoll and Kearney in the line with both Heaslip and D Wallace in close support to them. I don’t think any of those would have lost the ball in any way. The problem I had was that O’Leary never looked to go out there. The only time he didn’t pass it to a forward was when he went to Earls when Earls was on his own against 2 of their defenders.
The thing that frustrates me is that every time we move the ball quickly we tend to make more ground and get scores. Look at the Australia game when we were chasing it, and even back to the matches against France and England last year. Obviously its not possible to spend 80 mins moving the ball quickly but I think O’Leary just needs to mix his game up a bit in this way. He has the physicality and at this point there’s no-one better than him in this country. Reddan should be a lot closer to him but he was very poor against Fiji. Even though O’Leary and Hayes are the best we have in their positions it doesn’t make them immune from criticism. Hayes is coming to the end of his career so we can’t expect him to improve his game a whole lot but you’d expect that O’Leary would work on his weaknesses - he’s shown that his passing has improved a lot in the last 12 months and hopefully Saturday was just an off day kicking wise.
Now stop being such a pedantic arsehole and retreating away with your usual “Beaten man” / “Leinster bias” / “Anti-Cork bias” etc etc when you’re challenged on anything 
[quote=“Mac”]Christ what an anal arsehole you are.
Ireland moving to a more expansive game plan - we have some of the best backs in Europe (from both provinces :guns:). A blind man could see we need to move to a more expansive game. Had Eddie O’Sullivan not ignored Michael Cheika for a few years we probably would have moved a lot earlier. Kidney is moving us towards this albeit in his conservative way - this isn’t a bad thing as things won’t change overnight but if you compare the Argentina match last year to the way we’re playing 12 months later it’s a huge improvement and Kidney must take credit for this.
The South Africans were offside for a good bit of the day and Nigel Owens repeatedly warned Smit about this. Every time they kicked their runners were in front of the kicker. He never penalised them for it but must have warned them 4 or 5 times. When it was clear that the ref wasn’t going to penalise them O’Leary should have realised that the least he could do was vary the game plan.
A trademark of what Kidney has brought to the team is that while our defence has been excellent we’ve got better at defending further out the field, like in Cardiff last year we defended the half way line like it was the try line. That’s why I can’t understand why O’Leary continued to kick poorly when either Sexton or Kearney (or even Earls) would have got more ground out of it. He was kicking from about 10 metres from the line and barely making it to the 22. Fair enough if he’s trying to protect Sexton but he brought unnecessary pressure back on the Irish team. And I don’t think anyone can defend his kick away on 78 mins when we could quite easily have recycled the ball for 2 mins and closed the game out rather than having to defend like mad men.
On the point of not moving it quickly, I agree in part with what you say about the SA defence but a lot of the time we had Bowe, O’Driscoll and Kearney in the line with both Heaslip and D Wallace in close support to them. I don’t think any of those would have lost the ball in any way. The problem I had was that O’Leary never looked to go out there. The only time he didn’t pass it to a forward was when he went to Earls when Earls was on his own against 2 of their defenders.
The thing that frustrates me is that every time we move the ball quickly we tend to make more ground and get scores. Look at the Australia game when we were chasing it, and even back to the matches against France and England last year. Obviously its not possible to spend 80 mins moving the ball quickly but I think O’Leary just needs to mix his game up a bit in this way. He has the physicality and at this point there’s no-one better than him in this country. Reddan should be a lot closer to him but he was very poor against Fiji. Even though O’Leary and Hayes are the best we have in their positions it doesn’t make them immune from criticism. Hayes is coming to the end of his career so we can’t expect him to improve his game a whole lot but you’d expect that O’Leary would work on his weaknesses - he’s shown that his passing has improved a lot in the last 12 months and hopefully Saturday was just an off day kicking wise.
Now stop being such a pedantic arsehole and retreating away with your usual “Beaten man” / “Leinster bias” / “Anti-Cork bias” etc etc when you’re challenged on anything [/quote]
thats a bit long winded mac- a brief synopsis please?
[quote=“Mac”]Christ what an anal arsehole you are.
"The South Africans were offside for a good bit of the day and When it was clear that the ref wasn’t going to penalise them [B]O’Leary should have realised that the least he could do was vary the game plan "
Why would he, he was probably told to be patient, stick to the plan, he was acrrying out this. If the captain ran in and said, look this is not working, we’re being hammered everywhere, then obviously you need on-field management, but this wasn’t the case.
“A trademark of what Kidney has brought to the team is that while our defence has been excellent we’ve got better at defending further out the field, like in Cardiff last year we defended the half way line like it was the try line. That’s why I can’t understand why O’Leary continued to kick poorly when either Sexton or Kearney (or even Earls) would have got more ground out of it. He was kicking from about 10 metres from the line and barely making it to the 22. Fair enough if he’s trying to protect Sexton but he brought unnecessary pressure back on the Irish team. And I don’t think anyone can defend his kick away on 78 mins when we could quite easily have recycled the ball for 2 mins and closed the game out rather than having to defend like mad men.”
It might as well have been the try line, they only needed a panalty, which they got?!?
Agree on him kicking when others like you mentioned are behind him. Kicking from behind the scrum is tactical though. If he kicked it poorly then he just kicked it poorly, and as you say needs towork on that aspect.
“On the point of not moving it quickly, I agree in part with what you say about the SA defence but a lot of the time we had Bowe, O’Driscoll and Kearney in the line with both Heaslip and D Wallace in close support to them. I don’t think any of those would have lost the ball in any way. The problem I had was that O’Leary never looked to go out there. The only time he didn’t pass it to a forward was when he went to Earls when Earls was on his own against 2 of their defenders.”
You really don’t get this, they don’t want Wallace and Heaslip getting the ball like that all the time. They are power runners, they can’t do it over and over again for the entire game.
The highlighted point is a complete lie.
“The thing that frustrates me is that every time we move the ball quickly we tend to make more ground and get scores. Look at the Australia game when we were chasing it, and even back to the matches against France and England last year. Obviously its not possible to spend 80 mins moving the ball quickly but I think O’Leary just needs to mix his game up a bit in this way. He has the physicality and at this point there’s no-one better than him in this country. Reddan should be a lot closer to him but he was very poor against Fiji. Even though O’Leary and Hayes are the best we have in their positions it doesn’t make them immune from criticism. Hayes is coming to the end of his career so we can’t expect him to improve his game a whole lot but you’d expect that O’Leary would work on his weaknesses - he’s shown that his passing has improved a lot in the last 12 months and hopefully Saturday was just an off day kicking wise.”
Again your ignoring the fact that we are not ready/set up to go wide much more than we do now. We also would become very predictable. While we have some fantastic runners, and prospects i expect to get even better, we still don’t have a backline like NZ, or even the Aussies as yet, so it would be madness for us to adapt a game totally based on this.
“Now stop being such a pedantic arsehole and retreating away with your usual “Beaten man” / “Leinster bias” / “Anti-Cork bias” etc etc when you’re challenged on anything
Who said anything about Cork? I said you were beaten because you wouldn’t adress my points. You have now, and while a agree with some, i disagree with more, lets just leave it at that.
Thanks.
[quote=“caoimhaoin;284010][QUOTE=Mac”]Christ what an anal arsehole you are.
"The South Africans were offside for a good bit of the day and When it was clear that the ref wasn’t going to penalise them [B]O’Leary should have realised that the least he could do was vary the game plan "
Why would he, he was probably told to be patient, stick to the plan, he was acrrying out this. If the captain ran in and said, look this is not working, we’re being hammered everywhere, then obviously you need on-field management, but this wasn’t the case.
“A trademark of what Kidney has brought to the team is that while our defence has been excellent we’ve got better at defending further out the field, like in Cardiff last year we defended the half way line like it was the try line. That’s why I can’t understand why O’Leary continued to kick poorly when either Sexton or Kearney (or even Earls) would have got more ground out of it. He was kicking from about 10 metres from the line and barely making it to the 22. Fair enough if he’s trying to protect Sexton but he brought unnecessary pressure back on the Irish team. And I don’t think anyone can defend his kick away on 78 mins when we could quite easily have recycled the ball for 2 mins and closed the game out rather than having to defend like mad men.”
It might as well have been the try line, they only needed a panalty, which they got?!?
Agree on him kicking when others like you mentioned are behind him. Kicking from behind the scrum is tactical though. If he kicked it poorly then he just kicked it poorly, and as you say needs towork on that aspect.
“On the point of not moving it quickly, I agree in part with what you say about the SA defence but a lot of the time we had Bowe, O’Driscoll and Kearney in the line with both Heaslip and D Wallace in close support to them. I don’t think any of those would have lost the ball in any way. The problem I had was that O’Leary never looked to go out there. The only time he didn’t pass it to a forward was when he went to Earls when Earls was on his own against 2 of their defenders.”
You really don’t get this, they don’t want Wallace and Heaslip getting the ball like that all the time. They are power runners, they can’t do it over and over again.
The highlighted point is a complete lie.
“The thing that frustrates me is that every time we move the ball quickly we tend to make more ground and get scores. Look at the Australia game when we were chasing it, and even back to the matches against France and England last year. Obviously its not possible to spend 80 mins moving the ball quickly but I think O’Leary just needs to mix his game up a bit in this way. He has the physicality and at this point there’s no-one better than him in this country. Reddan should be a lot closer to him but he was very poor against Fiji. Even though O’Leary and Hayes are the best we have in their positions it doesn’t make them immune from criticism. Hayes is coming to the end of his career so we can’t expect him to improve his game a whole lot but you’d expect that O’Leary would work on his weaknesses - he’s shown that his passing has improved a lot in the last 12 months and hopefully Saturday was just an off day kicking wise.”
Again your ignoring the fact that we are not ready/set up to go wide much more. We also would become very predictable. While we have some fantastic runners, and prospects i expect to get even better, we still don’t have a backline like NZ, or even the Aussies as yet, so it would be madness for us to adapt a game totally based on this.
“Now stop being such a pedantic arsehole and retreating away with your usual “Beaten man” / “Leinster bias” / “Anti-Cork bias” etc etc when you’re challenged on anything ”
Who said anything about Cork? I said you were beaten because you wouldn’t adress my points. You have now, and while a agree with some, i disagree with more, lets just leave it at that.
Thanks.[/quote]
very poorly formatted - please edit it so its more legible
[quote=“caoimhaoin”]
Who said anything about Cork? I said you were beaten because you wouldn’t adress my points. You have now, and while a agree with some, i disagree with more, lets just leave it at that.
Thanks.[/quote]
I’ll leave it at that when you show me where I’ve blatently and consistently singled out Munster players for unwarranted criticism
I would if I thought you gave a rats arse about rugby buddy
im interested in your conflict with kevin
Read away, there is plenty there between the two threads.
http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=17512
and
http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=9491
Cheers
[quote=“caoimhaoin”]Read away, there is plenty there between the two threads.
http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=17512
and
http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=9491
Cheers[/quote]
:rolleyes:
It’s sometimes easier for you just to admit you were wrong Kev. You should try it sometime.
All you need to know is that he’s wrong and I’m right. I wouldn’t like to be responsible for wasting your time
thats what i assumed
This. Fuck knows how running into heavy contact, slowing everything down and even getting pinged for holding on is part of a ‘tactical masterplan’. Obviously, the box kicks are a part of Kidney’s tactics, but doing them so poorly is Tomas’s fault.
Turenne, did you just use the word “pinged”? You’re really getting into this 
Also he kicked the ball away with about three minutes on the clock giving Safferland a chance to win. I nearly threw my laptop at the TV screen when I saw that.
Defintely his worst performance in an Ireland jersey.