Official 2012 All Ireland Hurling Championship Thread

Sport
41

[quote=“Kinvara, post: 682615”]

Distribution of Tipperary’s scores

http://i.imgur.com/6cYdD.jpg

[/spoiler]

Whereas Kilkenny’s scores tended to come from the central channel, Tipp’s tended to come from the open spaces they created on the two wings.

After that game you wouldn’t have expected Kilkenny to outwork Tipp last year but they did, in one sense at least. One of the weirdest things about the stats for last year’s final was that Tipperary actually put in more hits than Kilkenny did (19 to 15), and they even won more rucks for broken ball (10 to 9).

The major difference between the two teams on the day was the quality and quantity of Kilkenny tackling. Kilkenny turned over possession (as in tackled a Tipp player in possession, dispossessed him, and won the ball themselves) 18 times to Tipp’s 6. Their tackling was just on a different level and it played a huge part in breaking down Tipp. Obviously there were lots of other factors too, but that was a big one.

This Kilkenny side is a magnificent hurling team, and they’d have won All-Irelands in any era. But, the vise-like grip they have on the championship is because of the physical superiority they carry onto the field. They tackle harder and better than anyone else, and you can only beat them if you can reach their level in that department. Obviously, not too many have.

42

Thats an amazing chart WTB and the fact that the Kilkenny scores are coming from the central channel supports the obvious that they like the physicality of the game. It would be interesting to see how many of those scores came directly from turnovers in that channel. The chart also shows how important the KK FF line are to them.

So the way to beat Kilkenny is to keep the ball wide and away from their HB line. Which is of course easier said than done.

43

Sure thats always the way to win hurling matches.

44

In a perfect world of course it is. But with a team so strong and aggressive all over the pitch like KK, how do you do that? They bring their midfield in and drop their HF line deeper towards the backs. Kilkenny compress the play so well because it suits them. The onyl way forward I would see is to bring the physicality to them, as Dublin and Tipp have shown can be done in the last two years. Tipp didn’t seem prepared for the onslaught last year, which was surprising given what they did in 2010.

45

Simple, 2 sweepers behind the full back line

46

No - that’s how you beat Tipp you clown.

47

I thought it was the universal way of beating every team?

48

It is far from easy to try and develop let alone implement a game plan to beat Kilkenny. I thought Waterford had the right idea to some extent last August where they looked to move the ball quite quickly around the middle third and keep switching the point of attack in order to try and draw out and isolate the kilkenny half backline and midfield, unfortunately for Waterford though they simply didn’t have the real out and out classy stickmen in the middle of the field to move the ball quick enough and the they lacked a goal threat inside and an overall scoring threat in their forward line. It was a far better attempt at it than Tipp’s fast direct ball into the forwards who were isolated and well beaten for a finish up. What harm but Tipp would have the hurlers to move that ball and retain it around the middle third before picking out a runner inside for it to be effective. They have looked to use possesion far more in the league this year so I presume they will look to utilise this style of play far more along with having the likes of Buggy and O’Brien in the inside line to give them a direct option to mix it up a bit as well

49

No thats what I call proper hurling analysis. There is no other forum which offers this.

Well done lads.

50

I agree. I think Waterford did very well against them last year and actually made Kilkenny look very ordinary at times. Of course, there was lots of hand wringing over the defensive nature of their setup, but the notion that they’d have stood a better chance if they’d gone for broke is totally unrealistic.

Because they never met Kilkenny in their very best years (06 & 07), there’s a dangerous fantasy in Waterford that if they had made the final in those years instead of Cork and Limerick, their swashbuckling style would have put Kilkenny to the sword. In all likelihood, Kilkenny would have mauled them as well, just maybe not as badly as they did in '08.

51

Sweet divine Jesus. In the land of the blind the one eyed man etc etc. But then Cyril Farrell is yer contribution to punditry. And Gerry Mac just about knew what end of the hurley to hold.

The rubbing of each other’s balls amongst the Christy Brown Cup counties is a sight to behold. It put’s me in mind of down and out’s handing around the comfort of a flagon. All we need now is a few Offaly and Wexford lads to disappear up the fundament of the nearest Cat in true ferret style.

52

Hang on sonny… sit the fcuk down and listen for a second.

I was poitning out that the quality of analysis in the media on hurling is pi$$ poor. Even Walshs article on sunday stating that possession isn’t that important anymore… complete boll0cks. At least on TFK there a few lads who can wipe away the nice fancy media talk and break the game down into proper analysis.

I’ll give you Farrell… re Gerry Mac… FOAD you joker.

53

Rodge, mate. Have you informed the board as to what colours you pin to your mast?

54

[quote=“Watch The Break, post: 682618”]

Turenne is correct. You have to match them for workrate and in the physical stakes and then find a way to beat them. That’s what Tipp did in 2010 where the middle of the field was a ferocious battleground. After they achieved parity there they used the ideas that O’Shea had instilled to get the necessary scores. I always find these charts of the score distribution on the day to be an interesting illustration of how they did this:

Distribution of Kilkenny’s scores

http://i.imgur.com/RQw8t.jpg

Distribution of Tipperary’s scores

http://i.imgur.com/6cYdD.jpg

Whereas Kilkenny’s scores tended to come from the central channel, Tipp’s tended to come from the open spaces they created on the two wings.

After that game you wouldn’t have expected Kilkenny to outwork Tipp last year but they did, in one sense at least. One of the weirdest things about the stats for last year’s final was that Tipperary actually put in more hits than Kilkenny did (19 to 15), and they even won more rucks for broken ball (10 to 9).

The major difference between the two teams on the day was the quality and quantity of Kilkenny tackling. Kilkenny turned over possession (as in tackled a Tipp player in possession, dispossessed him, and won the ball themselves) 18 times to Tipp’s 6. Their tackling was just on a different level and it played a huge part in breaking down Tipp. Obviously there were lots of other factors too, but that was a big one.

This Kilkenny side is a magnificent hurling team, and they’d have won All-Irelands in any era. But, the vise-like grip they have on the championship is because of the physical superiority they carry onto the field. They tackle harder and better than anyone else, and you can only beat them if you can reach their level in that department. Obviously, not too many have.[/quote]

Quality stats. Do those turnovers include hits and can you have a turnover with no hit? If Tipperary hit more but won a third of the number of turnovers you’d have to conclude they’re not hitting hard enough.

55

Eh, what’s this mate lark about me old codger?

56

Internet hardman me holio. Sonny?! LMFAO, FOAD, TLA.

57

Preview podcast here with 2 former Tipperhairy hurlers. Forum friend Colm Bonnar being one and the man whose claim to fame is sharing a name with an Internet pervert being the other.

http://outinfront.podhoster.com/index.php?sid=3147&pid=31617

58

Bodychecking and effective tackling are different things. It’s the latter that Kilkenny really excel in. They are superb at tying up the player in possession, constraining his arms and forcing him to spill the ball. When you look at something like turnovers though you have to see it from the other side as well, the ability of a team’s players to break tackles and not get tied up by the opposition. Physical strength comes into that but it’s primarily about technique, like getting your arms above the shoulders of a guy that’s facing you like Tommy Walsh is here:

http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked/Library/SF763/555469.jpg

http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked/Library/SF763/555494.jpg

In that situation it allows you to leverage off the tackler in order to drive past him.

Kilkenny are better in contact than anyone else which is why a lot of people place emphasis on the importance of the support game against them. It doesn’t get you out of having to match them physically but it should lessen the chance of a guy getting tied up and losing the ball if he has teammates to offload it to most of the time.

59

As good a place as any to put this cuntfest

http://guestlistapp.com/events/104475

Event Information

Copper Face Jacks, The Sun and Heineken present an evening with Hurling Legends. Join Ryan O Dwyer, Michael Duignan and Eddie Brennan. Caul Pollins is the compere. Doors open at 7pm with food and drinks reception, the panal discussion starts at 8pm until 10pm

60

I would think that is a fair analysis. Cody always had a major pain in his hole about the way Waterford were going on about themselves and Waterford were always likely to get some sort of headstagger when they met Kilkenny in a final. The inferiority complex would always come to the fore. That said Justin might have managed them a bit better on the day than Davy, though he could never stop them blowing up in semi finals. The way Davy had them wound up in 08 they didn’t know what end was up. It was pitiful.