Michael D will bring them back to the promised land.
I consider people who vote SF to be scum alright, I’ve said that over and over. Not going to change my opinion on that. Proper lefties with principles I’ve no bother with, as I’ve said, even if I disagree and wouldn’t vote for them.
I’ve criticised FG quite a bit on here. Just because I voted for them as they were the best of the bunch doesn’t mean I’m a cheerleader for them like the Rastoolers are for SF.
I’m calling Andrews and Creightons position as I see it. Remember Creighton isn’t exactly top of the FG Christmas card list and was probably booed by a few of their people yesterday which isn’t on. You can’t square that against my apparent FG bias though can you?
Humpreys wasn’t too far off being elected pal. Three hundred votes in fact.
If you think the Labour Party, in a constituency with a strong liberal streak, isn’t going to make a comeback when FF did there this time out then you’re mad. The Labour Party have had peaks and troughs since the 80s. At the moment you have two FGers, a FFer & a Green, there is still a gap there for a genuine liberal TD. Maybe if the SD’s run a more high profile candidate there they can take that space but there’s no indication of that yet.
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Does Renua have a viable future or should Lucinda just abort it?
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Labour had two seats and ended up with none. You can spin it any way you want but it’s been a disaster for them, take your coalition hat off and smell the coffee.
They won’t have Ruairi Quinn’s popularity to carry them any more around here. His nephew was supposed to be his successor but he got annihilated in the council elections and the house of Quinn is dead.
They are left with Humphreys for the foreseeable around here and he’s a useless politician who is widely disliked among his core vote.
They are fucked.
Any Liberal middle class vote will be hoovered up by Eamonn Ryan and they can only reclaim that vote if Ryan swans off to Europe.
Where did I say it was a success or anyway not a disaster for them? I merely said they’d be back. I also pointed out your assertion that Humpreys is “despised” is patent nonsense when he was within a whisker of getting back in.
The Labour Party goes through peaks and troughs. That is their history. Go through their electoral history and that is a fact. They took a mighty kicking in 97 as well and came back. They’ve come from lower vote shares as well.
It’s also a fact that they have strong trade union ties and a good youth structure. The idea that the Labour Party is dead is absolutely farcical. Once abortion comes back on the agenda they will be back in the heart of discussion in this country. There are enough bleeding heart liberals coming out of UCD and Trinity college in that area to ensure the Labour Party will always be well stocked. And despite what you and Sidney might think, they aren’t going to join SF instead. Not while the Northern Command are in charge.
It’s also laughable that you would state that Eamonn Ryan and the Greens are going to long term take the Labour role on the liberal left of that constituency. This is the same yo yo Green Party that the wise savants on here (through a quick search), declared dead previously. I like the Greens as a cohesive niche voice in Irish politics but the reality is they are small and don’t have much of an infrastructure. They will always be up against it on seats, relying on late transfers.
I am far from a Labour voter either. I might think they’ve been a bit unfairly treated by the media. They went into a COALITION government with a party who were proposed far deeper austerity cuts than Labour. I really didn’t want FG to go in with them last time and I really can’t stand their vested interest with Trade Unions. I just look at what the reality of the situation is. Calling the Labour Party finished is wishful thinking.
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I’m not sure why you are giving me a lecture on the history of the Labour Party in the Republic of Ireland.
I’m telling you that the landscape has changed utterly for them in Dublin bay south. It will be a long time before they return another TD here. The low turnout on Friday tells you their core vote are not bothered with them any more.
Oh dear. How awful. And how boring.
Labour has never had to face somebody stealing their ground from the left before, certainly not a party with the historical weight and ability to organise that Sinn Fein has. They’ve always had that ground to themselves. That’s not the case any more. And anyway, they’ve vacated that ground entirely now and don’t have a clue what they stand for.
I bet the Liberals in Britain in 1919 said “we’ll be back” too.
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Because you are taking reactionary dribble about the Labour Party based on your own bias and wishful thinking. You claim the LP are dead but just ignore the salient facts about their membership & history, claiming this is unique.
You claimed that Kevin Humphreys was widely despised, he was 300 short of getting back in.
You laughably claim the Green Party are going to take the liberal left vote in that constituency. This is the same Green Party who were decimated the last time and people claimed were dead.
Your assertion seems to be based solely on Labour losing two seats here. They had one until the swing towards them in 2011. Even when Quinn was the leader he couldn’t carry in a second TD. 2011 was an aberration. They had a swing against them nationally and lost a constituency stallworth- but they were still bloody close to getting in here.
You just continue to ignore the facts about the Labour Party because you don’t like them. If FF can come back in an area like DBS and even the Greens, who were seen as traitors by many who voted for them in 2007 including DSE, the LP will. A couple of hundred swing and they have a rep back in DBS.
I’m not sure why I’m bothering to defend Labour here, I really have very little time for them. Paul Sommerville would have been a far more useful additional to the last Dáil than Humpreys.
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What happens in the future is not a fact. And that’s a fact.
I’m talking about the Labour Party in Dublin bay south. You are the one who is muddying the waters and attempting to cast the net wider than our confines to try and bolster your argument.
Anyway, I’m not getting embroiled in an endless spat a la Nembo Kid and Croppy Boy.
I bid thee goodnight.
Not correct, FF have slithered into that ground plenty of times and did it at this election again. Democratic Left and others have come into that space before as well.
The Liberals comparison is stupid. Westminister’s voting system means when you’re decimated, you’re decimated. As I’ve pointed out many times on here, the Irish Parliamentary Party would a significant % of votes in 1918 but fuck all seats. Because of the system. That isn’t in place here, we have PR.
Fine Gael 2002, Fianna Fáil 2011, the Greens in 2011- all apparently dead as well.
There has undoubtedly been a shift in Irish politics with FG/FF losing share with SF now an established party. But that doesn’t mean the Labour Party are finished.
Chris Andrews failed in this constituency. You were joyfully predicting he had a seat wrapped up on here on Sat morning. He did worse than Humpreys.
The Democratic Left were a rump of The Worker’s Party who were a rump of the Official IRA themselves. They had fuck all organisation and resources.
Sinn Fein have all that and have been building slowly (which is the only way you can build sustainably) for the last 20 years and will steal more and more of Labour’s old ground as the years go on.
Labour have always been a complacent party and that’s showing now. They’ve lost most of their best TDs and what they’re left with is mostly old guard.
They’ll ultimately be forced to remarket themselves as a junior partner to Sinn Fein in a left block.
There’s a seat there for Sinn Fein next time. Just because they didn’t hit 30 seats this time doesn’t mean they’re going away or will not continue to increase their vote. They’ll be leading the opposition and that will massively increase the party’s relevance. Labour with 6 or 7 TDs will be irrelevant.
I’m sorry for thinking that a national swing might effect a local one and pointing out that Labour have swung in the past might be relevant in the future. You haven’t given any reason why they are “fucked” in the medium and short term there. I can think of plenty of working class constituencies where they’ve lost seats to SF and the real left wing by large amounts, in those areas you’d have a point. 300 votes is sweet FA and will be first on Labours target seats to try and win back.
How is it going to get worse for the LP in DBS when KH was less than a 200 vote swing away from being elected? Is KH going to become more unpopular? They were more competitive here than in plenty of other constituencies, even some of their other traditional bases. In Dún Laoghaire for example, they performed appallingly, despite there being a long tradition of a bleeding heart middle class vote there.
You claim Eamonn Ryan is now the liberal left wing voice of DBS. If Andrews had got in you’d be claiming the same for him. You can’t mask your hate for the LP and are allowing it to cloud everything you’ve said.
“There’s a seat there next time for SF”
It’s always next time isn’t it Sid?
Labour’s vote collapsed by 12.9%. SF won just 3.9% of that.
If not now, then when are SF making a breakthrough in a constituency like this? Andrews had the whole of Ringsend, Pearse Street and Irishtown to win. He had name recognition. He failed and you can tell this one hurts you deep as you had trumpeted it for a while. Humpreys despite being “despised” beat him out.
Maybe when the Northern Command moves on I guess.
I also said SF were here to stay and are established. They just aren’t picking up all of that Labour vote whilst they have scum at the helm.
Labour abandoned the Left in 1918 when they deferred to SF, the most reactionary right wing party in Ireland at the time. The problem for Labour is there was no industrial industry in Ireland, the English industrialized the north but preferred to keep southern Ireland in agriculture (while oblivious to potato famines of course). The result of this was no core support for a working class party, it was too easy for FF to latch on to the small diffuse working class while ideologically being identical to FG.
People who deny FF and FG are the same ideologically are the same as RCs who think the Magdalene laundries were a terrible shame but would have willingly sent their neighbors kid to one.
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The likelihood is that yes, it will be.
Sinn Fein converted the majority of “next time” seats from 2011 into seats this time. And they’ll do the same next time.
Joseph Rafferty’s murder continues to hamper the Shinners efforts in this area. They thought Chris Andrews would wipe the slate clean, they were wrong.
This is supposed to be a thread for us to laugh at Renua, not have a pointless discussion about Labour in Dublin Bay South. Cop yourselves on please
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What’s the background with this?
I will take a PM on the alleged perpetrator’s name.
I also don’t know what the family expect SF to do. If the family know who was responsible for the murder then why don’t go the Gardai and work with them for a conviction. The constant lobbying of SF on every alleged indiscretion of a republican with links to SF or the IRA is truly bizarre, do they actually want the Provos to hold kangaroo courts or not? It seems to be a much bigger issue that they don’t have any faith in the police service of this state and the judicial system to be able to gain convictions.