Well im not looking for a row either…even if you did repeat this admiration for putin nonsense, sure its all in the game.
As for the hunter/joe stuff? If you dont think there are repercussions to ousting a leader, carpet bagging like bejaysus, selecting your own choice of president etc etc then you probably aren’t aware that putin invaded Ukraine.
The claim there was a “coup” in Ukraine in 2014 is Nazi level propaganda.
There was no coup.
Viktor Yanukovych ordered mass murder and was impeached on a 328-0 vote by the Ukrainian parliament. He then fled into the bosom of his puppet master Putin.
When posters claim a “coup” that never happened, just remember on whose side they are on.
They are on the side of the mass murderer.
Imagine, in some parallel universe, a Taoiseach ordering the Irish Army to slaughter a hundred peaceful protestors on the streets of Dublin, and posters here defending them, saying that it was perfectly within a Taoiseach’s right to do that and that they must remain in office, and that any attempt to remove them would constitute a “coup”.
That’s what we’re dealing with with the “coup” conspiracists.
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As I mentioned before, I think you are a lapsed idealist. So I would say: ‘What do you think gobshites like the Bidens would be doing? How could they surprise you?’
But so what, in this new context, what they did. If you cannot condemn in absolute terms Putin attacking Ukraine in the manner undertaken, I simply do not know what to say. If nothing else, I would be deeply uncomfortable being on the same side of the fence as individuals such as Clare Daly and Mick Wallace et al. At far from the end of the day, living in a comfy banal little democracy is far nicer and safer than living in Russia.
Yanukovych? He was impeached by the Ukrainian parliament. So what is your point about him? He was also completely corrupt.
The whataboutery goes nowhere – and is precisely my point about tone.
I think the actual effect of Russian fake news is slowly sinking in for some… not all though
There will always be some who choose to remain down the rabbit hole.
Karen Devine, who, in her own words was “educated from kindergarten to Leaving Cert level at Loreto Abbey, Dalkey” (nicknamed locally the Dalkey Soviet, I don’t think) is one.
On the Fifth Columnist thread I’ve already described Ms. Devine’s contribution to yesterday’s Brendan O’Connor Show on RTE Radio 1.
Ms. Devine is one of those who calls Mr. Yanukovych’s impeachment in 2014 “a coup”.
Here’s John Waters speaking at the same Irexit conference in 2018 at which Ms. Devine and other such public intellectuals like the block headed Hermann Kelly spoke, and which was headlined by Nigel Farage:
The biggest cheer of the four-hour conference – after Mr Farage’s appearance on stage – was in response to criticism from writer and former journalist John Waters when he called for the removal of Ireland’s political leaders and the media.
“In order to remove them [elected leaders] we have to have a conversation which means we have to remove the media because they will not permit us to have a conversation,” he said.
And here is Devine herself speaking at that same conference:
To the likes of Devine, Yanukovych, who was democratically removed after ordering the slaughter of a hundred people, are eternally legitimate, infallible leaders who should be immune from accountability and justice.
To Devine, Russia, which has launched a barbaric war of aggression against a peaceful neighbour for no reason at all, is not the colonial power. The EU, a voluntary trade bloc which countries are free to apply to join, and, as we have seen, to leave, is the colonial power.
To Devine and her ilk, upside down is downside up and inside out is outside in, basic freedom is tyranny and tyranny is freedom.
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True.
And here would be my point that matters could have been different – could, just about – if so many people had not given so much credence to the likes of Nigel Farage and Steve Bannon. Western gullibility emboldened Putin. I am not blaming ‘The West’. I am saying that ‘The West’ has significantly lauded stupidist populism for a decade.
What would the Americans be doing…not destabilising a corner of the world, chosing leaders, profiteering etc would be nice. As for daly, wallace, claire byrne, admiring putin…this is all stuff made up on the hoof.
And the condemnation game ? When did that enter the equation or what possible reason is there for throwing that at me? Its just garbage, also made up on the hoof. We’ve now shifted from expressing admiration to not issuing an official statement offering condemnation.
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Oh fucking brilliant. 
What is your point? Have you a point?
On the hoof… Non point. What would you prefer? That I waited a week to reply? Clare Daly and Mick Wallace, amongst others, are fuckwits. If I found out their favourite fruit is a tangerine, I would stop buying them.
You are doing a remarkably good impression of someone who does admire Putin (for standing up to the Bidens et al). But I will, if you are so offended by my diagnosis of admiration, withdraw the comment and say: ‘You are oddly equivocal about a corrupt dictator who has a patent track record of expansionist aggression and massacring civilians.’
Which is obscuring a series of legitimate points you raised about Europe in 1946.
Do you want to withdraw, on factual grounds, your claim about Yanukovych? If not, why?
Parallel universe aside, the Taoiseach is the head of government not military, Miggledee has that responsibility and any coup would come from him much like the majority of histories dictators.
That you either got it wrong or made it up.
Sure you were on about admiration for a few days…the biden stuff is from ten minutes ago,
where anybody said anything about putin standing up to the bidens is anyone’s guess. And this stuff about equivocation is done and dusted…yesterday it was because i made points about post war(s) germany and post cold war russia. Today youve come round to such thinking yourself. Does this make you pro putin, or equivocal? Of course not …need i say more
What claim? The Americans appointed his successor before there was a shot fired. Join the dots
All you really do is make a feint forward and then take two steps back. So be it. I will leave at this reply.
I most certainly have not come around to “such thinking”. As I said, crises always engender speculation about what could have been different. I was merely speculating. I do not believe such speculation ‘blames’ The West but I also think equivocation about Putin is, putting the matter mildly and kindly, odd.
To say “What claim?” about Yanukovych is pure childish. Your claim, explicitly, was that he was ousted (“ousting a leader”). What part of impeachment – for slaughtering civilians – do you not understand? Plus, you appear to have no problem with his corruption. I suppose, in fairness, his corruption is small beer if you have no problem with the slaughter.
Your basic position appears to run as follows: ‘The Americans are interfering unprincipled bastards. Therefore Putin is (some bit) justified in attacking Ukraine.’ Better just to come out and say so.
Of course, you will now say: ‘I didn’t say he was justified.’ And so the pointless dance revolves. I guess you are a sort of pessimistic contrarian who thinks the world is deteriorating from how it used to be, a silly belief that has always licensed all sorts of dangerous remedies.
Well, you got the war for which you wished. I wonder if this war will bring the grand improvements you anticipated.
Covid/Ukraine. All we need now is for Rory to win the masters and the place will implode.
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You were speculating that financial aid might possibly have a role in nation building? Financial aid that was agreed in principle and which was withheld in this case? Thats not really speculation though.
And American engineering strife in order to replace a corrupt pro russian president with a corrupt pro american pro profiteering pro nato president isnt an issue? Is that what youre saying…lay off the netflix
For a lad that doesn’t want a row you’re very free with this sort of stuff, no hard feelings though. People often lose the run of themselves on the Internet.
Anyhow, good luck with your regime change/dancing with the devil scenarios. Let me know when it works out.
Lads, is it time to send Shane Ross and John Halligan over?
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