Six Nations 2009

Sport
941

[quote=“dancarter”]Goode is a joke player everywhere not just over here. Have a look again at the tries your talking about, the ones against Italy were pure opportunism.

I agree completely that until someone else gets a go we wont know if there is an alternative to ROG. But suggesting that the time to check that out is during an extremely tight 6N game with a potential title/grand slam on the line is just, to be frank, bullshit. You must think Kidney is an awful dope. Wel agree to disagree about his overall performance, I didnt think it was shambolic anyways, apart from the kicking.

Again wel agree to disagree on the spectacle. It was low scoring alright. Personally I thought there was a lot of great sub plots and some seriosu defensive efforts, but I can understand that might not be to everyones taste[/quote]

How is it bullshit. ROG performance was affecting the Irish side. One in a long run of average/shambolic performances in a green jersey. Wallace at 10 and Darcy at 12 for the last 20 could not have been any worse and more likely would have closed the game out a lot better. Wallace seemed to tackle well yesterday anyway and it could have been a huge vote of confidence in him. It wasnt just his kicking either Dan, he failed to get his outside backs moving at all. The alignment of the backs was pretty shambolic at times. He wasnt helped it must be said by some poor passing from O’Leary at times.

If its sub plots that grinds your gears Dan, Miami Vice should be on later.

942

[quote=“KIB man”]How will we ever know if there is an alternative when they are never given a chance. Rob Kearney was given a chance by default. He wasnt pulling up any trees at Leinster yet at international level he came in and impressed and he subsequently took off. The alternatives to ROG could not have done any worse. He was truly shambolic yesterday and imo badly needs a high profile kick up the hole. ROG performances are affecting the entire Irish side at the moment. Its three games in a row where he has been shit. He was awful against Argentina too, every game in the WCup and I’m struggling to think of his last 7/10 performance in a green jersey.

Ya BOD did well and showed great leadership. But I thought he was far better individually against France. Yesterday he never looked like breaking the English defence. Most of his best work was as an auxiliary flanker which isnt really his job. I reckon that his successful drop goal could be a bad thing long term. He is a poor kicker of the ball and I’m expecting a lot more attempts Keith Wood style from now on.

The match was utter stink Dan. 3-3 at half time or something. There was no score for about half an hour. Back play was all defensive. A truly shocking spectacle in which an awful English side with better discipline could have won. Plus they fucked up the pitch.

I’m not saying Goode is better than Flood. Both are pretty shit in my eyes. Goode is seen as something of a joke player over here but in fairness to him he has been centrally involved in nearly all the English tries to date in the 6nations.[/quote]

I have to take you to task on that point above. Twice he broke with chips and was upended. Armitage should have got the line, and (a stretch i admit) it could have been penalty try, it was a clear dangerous block, led with the shoulder.

I don’t think it was a bad match at all, both sides went in 100%, but for about a 15 minute period there was a ridiculous amount of kicking.

As for ROG, this might sound stupid now, bt a friend of mine who actually knows him, said to me before that if ROG is red faced and looking nervous before a game you can be pretty sure he’ll play well, if not we’re in trouble. Yesterday he pointed that out to me in a text at the kick off, he said ROG is too relaxed, he’ll be shit. Now thats not very scientific, but he seems to have a point. ROG needs to be under pressure, and with Kidney the coach and the trust Kidney has in him, he probably knows he’ll never b taken off. If i was Kidney i’d start throwing some curve balls at training like putting BO’D in at 10 for a few drills or something.
Just a thought.

943

[quote=“caoimhaoin”]As for ROG, this might sound stupid now, bt a friend of mine who actually knows him, said to me before that if ROG is red faced and looking nervous before a game you can be pretty sure he’ll play well, if not we’re in trouble. Yesterday he pointed that out to me in a text at the kick off, he said ROG is too relaxed, he’ll be shit. Now thats not very scientific, but he seems to have a point. ROG needs to be under pressure, and with Kidney the coach and the trust Kidney has in him, he probably knows he’ll never b taken off. If i was Kidney i’d start throwing some curve balls at training like putting BO’D in at 10 for a few drills or something.
Just a thought.[/quote]

Never mind curve balls-how about just dropping the useless hoor altogether.
I’ve heard it all now-he needs to have his cheeks red to play well? That’s gas-sure just box the head off him before every game, that’ll redden him.

Thought it was an enjoyable game too-lots of big hits. Ferris was fantastic-he’s like a demon on the pitch. Hayes was as good as ever too. Both teams looked offside to me a lot of the time so I think this added to the reduced amount of line breaks.

Still surprised Darcy didn’t get on. Totally agreed with the decision to start Wallace but still thought DArcy would get 20.

944

[quote=“Pikeman”]Never mind curve balls-how about just dropping the useless hoor altogether.
I’ve heard it all now-he needs to have his cheeks red to play well? That’s gas-sure just box the head off him before every game, that’ll redden him.

Thought it was an enjoyable game too-lots of big hits. Ferris was fantastic-he’s like a demon on the pitch. Hayes was as good as ever too. Both teams looked offside to me a lot of the time so I think this added to the reduced amount of line breaks.

Still surprised Darcy didn’t get on. Totally agreed with the decision to start Wallace but still thought DArcy would get 20.[/quote]

Obviously its some sign of nerves, alot of the best sportsmen have to be nervous to play well. Its not that hard to understand, i’m not defending him in his performance.

Dropping him for what? ROG at 60% is the same as any other No. 10 in Ireland. He has had bad games before and has come back and been unreal. Kidney trusts him, and while he needs to up his game, i’m thinking there is a big one or two in him soon enough.

England should be looking at Shane Gerarty for No.10, he looks a more natural No. 10 than any of the others. I would not like to have been Danny Care yesterday.

Nothing has been mentioned about the U-20 win. Beating England at France at this level is almost a better achievement than winning at Senior, when you consider their pick. Great to see a number of really top quality players coming through again. I didn’t see the game, but a mate went and said there are a fine side with plenty bottle. I only really know of one layer, Peter O’ Mahoney, who played schools last year, he’s a serious operator and i think may be U-20 again next year.

945

Ridiculous question Kev

946

I rate Gerathy highly myself, but he got his chance when he came on against Italy and like Danny Care got sin binned a couple of minute after coming on…Gerathy is playing a lot at 12 for London Irish these days…

Most things have been said already on here…Thought ferris and Wallace were superb and Leamy looked eager when he came on…Thought Rory Best was poor when he came on…

Apart from the English try they neverly really threatened all the same, Ireland won by only a point but IMHO they were far more comformable and the win was never in doubt after O Driscoll’s try

947

the question is

dropping him for who? not what

Sexton- Doesn’t play for his club, doesn’t kick when he does

Keatley- Doing well for the worst team in the ML but no where near the required standard yet. Doesn’t even get in the A squad.

Humphreys- For me the best of the alternatives. Most experienced has played far more games at the top level club rugby after his time at Leiscter. Also played in a very competitive seconds league over there. Poor defence in the past but is improving. But appears to be third choice at best.

Wallace- Doesnt see himself as a 10, doesnt play there for his club. Doesnt kick for his club and doesnt really want to Id say. He might do a job in case of injury and thats as far as it goes. When he starts it really means he has to finish because if you take him off he cant come back on in anything happens to ROG.

Options aren’t great really are they. Id like to see one of them getting a chance alright but with the chance to win the championship now is not the time to take a chance.

948

Dan how exactly are Flutey and Hartley eligable to play for England when the likes of Mafi and Warwick aren’t eligable to play for Ireland

949

You live in a country for three years you can play for them. Mafi & Warwick cant because they represented NZ/Oz at sevens which ties you to that country. Flutey and Hartley obviously didn’t play sevens

950

[quote=“dancarter”]I agree with little of your post KIB.

TOL delivery is slower than Stringers no doubt. From every England lineout yesterday though Wallace/Ferris covered the space between ROG/PW. TOL swept across and did the back row job of covering any switch runners and made some good hits. His kicking was much improved as well. IMHO the way it is going at the moment is fine bring on stringer with 20 left for a tempo change. LOng term though TOL will get caught out with that pass, no doubt about it. Funnily Id say he might bew a step closer the Lions tour now, Care wont be seen again in the 6N based on JOhnson reaction to his sinbining

NO team would have substitued ROG yesterday because there is/was no alternative. PW is nominal cover for 10 but he doesnt play there for his club (for two years +), is not comfortable there, has never shown he has the quality to play there at anything above ML level. ROG kicked like an old woman but the rest of his game was not that bad.

BOD individual performance was head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. It is a pretty stupid thing to say that was down to ‘very few linebreaks’. The amount of work he did off the ball, tackling/rucking etc gave Ireland an extra back row, 9/10 for me.

Watched the game again this morning, too much kicking but it was decent enough game. Some seriosu hits going in from both sides and every play was well contested. Mike Ford would know those Irish players inside out so that was always going to make things more difficult. Didnt ever think Ireland would lose myself.

How do you make Goode out to be better than Flood? both are poor but against Wales England moved up several gears when Flood came on. You cant base it on yesterday because Goode went in scrum half almost straight away?

One more point on a second watch of the game- Tommy Bowe has improved 100% from last year. Excellent, showed up everywhere for the ball, good fielding good kicking. Id say he made about 10 interventions in the game yesterday and 9 were positive. Definite Lions tour unless he fooks up badly in the last two games[/quote]

Great result yesterday, but a poor game to watch, atmosphere again poor in Croker ( molly malone aside) . We struggle on but I think we allowed ourselves to be brought down to England’s level. We should have stamped our authority on the game but didn’t and ended up defending a one point lead for a minute.

Positives for me were Back 3- very competent (Dan agree completely re Bowe- think he’s come on a tonne this year) and pack who went toe to the toe with the Sasanachs.
BOD was immense again, he is the ultimate pro and I believe contrary to what S Jones wrote in the Sun Times today that he hasn’t lost his pace, I really think his confidence is returning and he will start to back himself more again over the coming weeks. He dragged us over the finish line yesterday.

O Gara had a bad day but put it in context, how many times has his kicking been immaculate for Ireland? The only other game I can remember him having such a mare was the game in NZ with the “pig of a ball”. Some competition for places would drive him on and possibly improve him but you can’t make that happen. His second penalty was wide from the moment it left his boot. His distribution seemed average but he wasn’t helped by the slow service and the blitz defence. Watch Scotland and Wales repeat this as TOL’s pass is just too slow.

Dan don’t agree at all re: TOL thought he was very poor, his box kicking was bad. too far ahead of the runners and he put a few into touch on the full- one by about 15 feet. He had one break which is probably the only one I can remember him making in the 3 games to date. I can’t say I recall much sweeping up defence behind the backline but I’ll take your word on it if you watched the vid this morning. I’d bring back Stringer, the impact he had on the game was immediate. He digs ball out and clears it so quicjly that it gives the backs time to play and doesn’t allow the defenders to organise themselves.

Actually thought ROG/PW defended ok yesterday but we were caught out by Tindall at the end in an almost replica move to the Danielli try for Scotland yesterday. Think PW wasn’t subbed because Deccie wanted to have Darce as cover for BOD in case he had to come off. I don’t foresee Deccie making any changes to the team, I’d probably have Strings and Darce in but I’d have picked them for yesterday as well, plus ca change

WBY

951

Offer alternatives and we can debate, otherwise just carry on with the ROG bashing, it really shows you have a clue what you talking about.:smiley:

952

Right Kev, I haven’t a clue even though everyone says ROG is and has been muck for quite some time.
Alternatives on how to make his cheeks red before a game is it? :smiley:

953

[quote=“Pikeman”]Right Kev, I haven’t a clue even though everyone says ROG is and has been muck for quite some time.
Alternatives on how to make his cheeks red before a game is it? :D[/quote]

The old “all the lads said”. Look you still refuse to debate and offer options to replace the 90 times capped, 2nd highest goal kicker in 6N out half that we have at the moment.

I have said before i believe Ian Humpheries should be in the squad to put pressure on, but i don’t think he is ready yet either.
From all the papers i read today and radio shows i listened to it seems the people i would listen to (ex-players) have said that the guy was poor, but he is still way ahead of anyone else, and they all to a man expect him to up his game for the last 2 games.

I’d take the opinion of Reggie Corrigan, Mick Galway, Moss Finn etc etc over any once off much savage tv watcher like yourself.
Debate over.

954

[quote=“caoimhaoin”]The old “all the lads said”. Look you still refuse to debate and offer options to replace the 90 times capped, 2nd highest goal kicker in 6N out half that we have at the moment.

I have said before i believe Ian Humpheries should be in the squad to put pressure on, but i don’t think he is ready yet either.
From all the papers i read today and radio shows i listened to it seems the people i would listen to (ex-players) have said that the guy was poor, but he is still way ahead of anyone else, and they all to a man expect him to up his game for the last 2 games.

I’d take the opinion of Reggie Corrigan, Mick Galway, Moss Finn etc etc over any once off much savage tv watcher like yourself.
Debate over.[/quote]

Expect ROG to up his game for the next 2 games? We’ve been crying out, screaming out for that for I don’t know how many games now.
The old “you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about” that you come out with everytime someone disagrees with you, is ridiculous at this stage.
Good to know the likes of Reggie Corrigan, Mick Galwey, Moss Finn all agree with me that the guy was poor.
Debate over.

955

How can we drop ROG when we have no one to replace him with? I back him to come out fighting in Edinburgh. Irish win, with no half backs? Thank you very much.

BOD was immense yesterday, heroic stuff.

956

Did I see a salute from the Davin stand when Molly Malone was sung?!

Not the greatest game of rugby I’ve ever been at. Some great performances from Ferris, O’Connell, Hayes, O’Driscoll, Bowe and Kearney. BOD was unreal. Never seen a man take such punishment in a rugby game and come out on top. Was delighted he got the try.

Half backs were poor. O’Leary must be under instructions to keep the ball slow as I mentioned after the last game. Frustrating as hell to watch and allows defences to get alined. Great litte chip through for Bowe to nearly score though and he had a few decent breaks. The lad outside him though was a disgrace. I counted 2 decent kicks and lost count of the bad ones. He really needs competition. A performance like that from him against Scotland or Wales and its curtains for us. He was equally muck against Italy but the sin binning seemed to give him a kick up the arse.

Hayes is just unreal at this stage. The amount of ground he covers has to be seen to be believed. Was disappointed Horan didnt make a better effort for their try.

I suppose the thing is that we would have lost a game like that in previous years so maybe Kidney is bringing a bit of luck to the camp. Thought Darcy should have been given 15 mins at the end but Wallace didnt deserve to be taken off.

957

[quote=“myboyblue”]How can we drop ROG when we have no one to replace him with? I back him to come out fighting in Edinburgh. Irish win, with no half backs? Thank you very much.

BOD was immense yesterday, heroic stuff.[/quote]

Pike has a hang up about all things Cork, don’t expect any reasonable thought to be put into his analysis concerning players from the rebel county.

958

Dont let it get to you. I couldnt give a fook if ROG was my brother, if there was an alternative, I’d drop him now.

But there isnt.

So we cant.

Simple as.

959

[quote=“myboyblue”]Dont let it get to you. I couldnt give a fook if ROG was my brother, if there was an alternative, I’d drop him now.

But there isnt.

So we cant.

Simple as.[/quote]

Oh, i agree. But Pike wants to drop him for average club players, or club players who don’t play.

960

[quote=“Mac”]Did I see a salute from the Davin stand when Molly Malone was sung?!

Not the greatest game of rugby I’ve ever been at. Some great performances from Ferris, O’Connell, Hayes, O’Driscoll, Bowe and Kearney. BOD was unreal. Never seen a man take such punishment in a rugby game and come out on top. Was delighted he got the try.

Half backs were poor. O’Leary must be under instructions to keep the ball slow as I mentioned after the last game. Frustrating as hell to watch and allows defences to get alined. Great litte chip through for Bowe to nearly score though and he had a few decent breaks. The lad outside him though was a disgrace. I counted 2 decent kicks and lost count of the bad ones. He really needs competition. A performance like that from him against Scotland or Wales and its curtains for us. He was equally muck against Italy but the sin binning seemed to give him a kick up the arse.

Hayes is just unreal at this stage. The amount of ground he covers has to be seen to be believed. Was disappointed Horan didnt make a better effort for their try.

I suppose the thing is that we would have lost a game like that in previous years so maybe Kidney is bringing a bit of luck to the camp. Thought Darcy should have been given 15 mins at the end but Wallace didnt deserve to be taken off.[/quote]

Your right, but you still won’t give the man the credit he deserves, unreal. Luck? For fuck sake Mac do you really believe it’s down to luck with Kidney?