Terry Prone and Anton Savage in a spot of bother

Current Affairs
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+3

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Broadsheet are absolutely killing them

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/12/21/for-whom-the-bell-trolls/

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The INTERNET, its serious business

For Whom The Bell Trolls

12:08 pm December 21, 2011 [/url][url=“http://www.broadsheet.ie/author/chompski/”]Chompsky

http://files.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Picture-343.jpeg

A new troll (above) recently joined the debate about the fallout from the redaction of Kate Fitzgerald’s article by the Irish Times and subsequent apology to The Communications Clinic.
Called ‘You’re Kidding Me’ he/she has ridiculed those seeking answers from the Irish Times and The Communications Clinic.
So far so whatever.
But this troll also seemed to be privy to some inside information about the case. And in the middle of all the sneering came this veiled threat:

[indent]Also – out of curiosity, and Broadsheet, have your defamation lawyers at the ready…[/indent]

Which we felt was a little, oh what’s the word? Familiar.
So we checked the troll’s IP address.
The registered owner is Matheson Ormsby Prentice, 70 Sir John Rogerson’s Quay, Dublin 2. The country’s best-known defamation lawyers. A leader in their field, you might say.
And whose clients include…the Irish Times.
Ain’t life grand?

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Who’s behind broadsheet does anyone know? They’re really changing the way journalism should be handled in Ireland. Not afraid of anyone it seems which is great to see.

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Not sure myself, but this is where the troll done most of his good work. Unbelievable to think they could get away with this level of shit and not draw attention to themselves

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id like to wish broadsheet a wonderful christmas and a prosperous new year for their stellar work in a this year. and also good wishes to the fitzgeralds on what will no doubt be a difficult time for then. to the prone savage family, i wish a pox on your house and finally, to MOPS, FOAD

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you are a vile cretin Art-

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cen fath?

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Jesus.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/we-cant-accept-suicide-as-the-only-explanation-of-kates-death-3230135.html

‘We can’t accept suicide as the only explanation of Kate’s death’

A year after tragedy, Fitzgerald’s father says law should be changed

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By Tom Fitzgerald[/size]
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Sunday September 16 2012[/size]

Be the first to comment[/size][/font]
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When my phone rang at 5:20pm in my office in Ballingeary, west Cork, on August 23, 2011, I had no idea how that call would change my life.

“This is a ban garda,” said the voice. “I have some news for you.”
“Yes, what is the news?”
“I can’t tell you,” she said.
“Then why are you calling me?”
“You have to come to where I am.”
“And where is that?”
“At your house.”
Those last three words, while spoken softly, seemed loud as thunder.
No garda comes to your house without terrible news. Usually someone in the immediate family is dead or not far from it.
I left for home straight away. In the 20-minute drive through the countryside of west Cork, I tried to figure out what this terrible news might be. I had just spoken to my 22-year-old son William who is based in China. I had spoken to my wife Sally earlier. By process of elimination, it had to be about our 25-year-old daughter Kate who lived in Dublin. While we had spoken the previous day and she was just fine, I couldn’t think how it could be anything else. I decided that I was engaged in a pointless exercise and should focus on driving home safely.
When I arrived home at around 5:40pm, I saw the garda car and I could hear Sally crying uncontrollably.
A young male garda walked over to me.
“What is it?” I asked.
“It’s your daughter Kate. She’s dead.”
“How?”
“It was suicide.”
Those words had a finality that stopped the planet. They simply did not seem open to question. Wonderful, beautiful Kate was gone. It was simply unbelievable. Our dynamic 25-year-old daughter, full of promise, beauty and ambition – was gone. The absolute finality was shattering. I couldn’t think. Nothing could be done. It was over. No conversations could happen. Nothing could be brought back.
I tried to talk to Sally. She was inconsolable, unreachable, beyond shock, beyond the physical world. She held on to our two dogs and cried.
Trying to understand the story, I asked the garda. “How did she die?”
“Hanging,” he said.
That simply did not seem possible. It was too horrendous. It was not Kate’s way. How could it be? Kate would never choose to die this way. Although she had been recently fighting bouts of depression, this was a young woman who, since she was a tiny girl, always, always wanted to be well presented. She was always conscious of how she looked. It wasn’t possible that she would end her life in a way that was gruesome and unsightly. On that awful day, I was too shattered to pursue this.
Later, I called William and told him the terrible news. He was to get the first flight out from Dalian, China, where he was based. He came via Istanbul and arrived in Dublin the next day.
I drove to Dublin. On the way, I spoke to the undertaker. He wanted to embalm Kate, to make her look better. I said: “No, don’t touch her. I want to see her exactly as she is.” I had seen my mother after the undertaker’s work, and I didn’t recognise her. I wanted to see my Kate as she was.
Growing up in west Kerry, the tradition is to see the body. Sally couldn’t face seeing her daughter’s dead body and chose to stay at home.
I picked William up at the airport and we went to the undertaker to see Kate. She was lying in a coffin dressed in a light blue shroud. She looked peaceful. I suppose some of that was the work of the undertaker. I can’t imagine someone looking peaceful after a violent death. I cannot describe my feelings. Grief simply had become numbness. I went through the motions of arranging cremation and I paid the undertaker. I was on autopilot.
The rest of the story is too long to describe in detail, but crucially, three days after her death, (August 26) I got some news that made me believe it might not be suicide. Some new details emerged to raise my suspicions. I called the undertaker and told him to hold the cremation until I called him back.
I called the investigating garda and quizzed him in great detail about what he found and how sure he was that it was suicide.
Yes, he was 100 per cent certain it was suicide.
It looked as if she stopped taking her medication on August 18, he said. We found out that the anti-depressant she was taking could have led to psychotic episodes if one suddenly stopped taking it. It appeared she had been drinking heavily, he said. There were two empty bottles of alcohol in the house, he said.
I called the morgue where the autopsy had been done on the previous day. The person who answered told me they had been part of the autopsy team. Yes, they were 100 per cent certain it was suicide. All the marks on the body were consistent with suicide. I asked numerous questions. Definitely suicide, no question.
“How did she die?” I asked.
“She broke her neck.”
So, it was instant, I thought. Based on what they told me, I was looking at possible psychotic episodes, alcohol and instant death. In such circumstances, suicide seemed possible. I discussed it with William. Reluctantly, I gave the go-ahead for cremation.
One year ago, on September 9, 2011, a moving article appeared in The Irish Times.
It spoke about how people with mental problems could suffer in the workplace. While it was written from direct personal experience, it neither identified the writer nor the workplace. I was standing in line at Bewley’s airport hotel when a friend of Kate’s called me to say that this article was written by Kate. As soon as I read it I recognised it as Kate’s work. I called The Irish Times to see how this could happen. Through this process, we got to know Peter Murtagh, The Irish Times editor who spoke to Kate on the day of her death.
He did not know of her death when he ran the article, and he was shocked. Having spoken to her that evening, he described her as “highly intelligent, thoughtful and extremely lucid”.
On November 26, 2011, Peter Murtagh wrote a powerful article about Kate’s death (by suicide as we all then believed). At that time we had come to terms with Kate’s death as a suicide. It is important to say that while Kate mentions suicide in the September 9 article, no doctor had ever diagnosed her having a suicide attempt.
February 16, 2012: I was leaving for work when the postman arrived. He handed me a large brown envelope so heavy with paper that it was ripped across the middle. We were expecting a medical report on Kate from St Patrick’s Hospital, and at first glance that’s what it seemed to be. We pretty much knew what was in that report, so I put it on the stairs and started for work.
In 10 minutes, I got a call from Sally. She was in shock.
“Why did you leave the autopsy report on the stairs?”
“I didn’t. That was the medical report from St Pat’s!”
“No, it’s the autopsy report!”
“How is that possible! Don’t read it! I’ll be right back.”
February 16 was as traumatic as August 23. We waded through the details of the autopsy. We went to our local GP to interpret some of the medical terminology. It didn’t seem consistent with what we had learned previously.

  1. Kate did not die of a broken neck. She died slowly of ligature strangulation.
  2. Kate had not stopped taking her medication. The medication levels were clinically spot on.
  3. Kate had not been drinking heavily. She died with the equivalent of one drink in her system.
  4. Other evidence that we had in our possession became crucial to the case due to the new information. We cannot discuss this due to the garda investigation.
  5. Kate’s hyoid bone – a small bone in the neck – was broken. This unattached bone in the neck can only be broken by horizontal pressure. It is extremely rare in suicidal hanging and even more so with a young person.
    We’ve spoken to a number of legal people on this matter and since the autopsy report, we’ve done a lot of research, and this injury is always a strong indicator of murder.
    We went back to the Kevin Street gardai. They reluctantly agreed to have another look. Two more weeks and I was told that they had looked and said there was no reason to investigate further.
    I went to the Garda Ombudsman and after some persuasion he agreed that the investigation must be reopened. It took almost three months from the arrival of the autopsy, but, based on a demand from the Garda Ombudsman, a team of detectives reopened the investigation on May 4. It was now almost nine months since Kate’s body was found.
    The stress of this uncertainty has caused endless pain to our entire family. Sally spent more than six weeks in hospital to deal with the stress.
    There is a lot that we cannot reveal at this point, but we can’t accept suicide as the only option any more. With the loss of the body and the complete clearing out of her house, Sally and I don’t believe that anyone will be held responsible. We spent six months coming to terms with the news that our daughter had taken her own life and trying to understand how a young woman who had such promise could do this.
    After two successful interviews just days before her death, she was about to get a prestigious new job with Ernst and Young. Why would she suddenly decide to end it all? Now we must learn to live with possible murder and the strong likelihood that no one will be caught.
    The gardai told us there were no photos taken at the death scene. The morgue told us there were no photos taken at the autopsy. The gardai told us this is standard procedure if it is not a “State case”. A “State case” is one where there is a decision of foul play at the time of death. If there isn’t such a decision, then investigation is less than intensive.
    What happened in Kate’s case could have happened to hundreds of people around Ireland. If the gardai on the scene are convinced that it is a suicide or an accident, then it doesn’t become a “State case.” The system simply does not work in a case like this.
    If the on-scene gardai are satisfied that it is not a State case, it will not be investigated as a State case. This deficiency needs to be addressed. Keep in mind that this is the way the system works right now.
    This story is far from over, but it is not too early to write this cautionary note. All unnatural deaths need to be investigated differently. The system must be changed. It might be too late for Kate, but if she were here, she would want her death to help other people.
    I am writing this today because it is one year since Kate wrote her anonymous article to highlight depression.
    She would want the world to be aware that sometimes, what appears to be suicide may not be. Ireland needs to change the laws so that all unnatural deaths are investigated as State cases, no matter how they look. Let’s call this change “Kate’s law”. I think she would like that.
    If anyone knows anything about the death of our daughter, Kate Fitzgerald, please contact Detective Superintendent Gabriel O’Gara, or detectives at Pearse Street garda station (01 666 9000).[font=Georgia][size=1][i]
  • Tom Fitzgerald[/i][/size][/font]
    [/size][/font]
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Fucking hell.

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In the main stories on the independent online they have in&m condemning the publishing of pics of Kate Middleton in the star and then they publish this beside it. Fucking hell, how can you run this story?

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Kate’s parents have issued a rather curious statement which is on Broadsheet which expresses dissatisfaction with the Coroner’s Court ruling on her death being a suicide last week.

It’s probably not right to be still printing stuff like that - the parents are basically alleging a conspiracy with the Gardaí and Marie Cassidy involved. Weird comments in it like “Marie Cassidy gave a speech at Athlone IT on ten ways to commit the perfect murder.”

I didn’t think the cause of death was up for debate until now and to be honest their statement reads a bit like a family who haven’t come to terms with the reality of their daughter’s depression and death.

[SIZE=16px][FONT=inherit]It is our view that the suicide verdict of June 6 at the Coroner’s court was tragically wrong.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]After more than 21 months of waiting we failed to get a hearing at the inquest, and we failed to get closure. We want to put some of the details our case into the public domain so that this does not happen to other families.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]There were five main problems with the inquest[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]1[/FONT]. Too much Garda intervention turned an inquest into a trial[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]2.[/FONT] The Family was not allowed to give input.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]3.[/FONT] There was virtually no investigation at the scene of death.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]4.[/FONT] The pathologists were allowed to change the manner and cause of death on the stand 21 months after the death[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]5.[/FONT] Hyoid bone evidence was underplayed by both Cassidy and the coroner[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]6.[/FONT] The jury was unduly influenced by the views expressed by the Coroner[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]A Wall of Blue[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]Anything but a suicide verdict would have been shocking given the amount of state funds that were committed to getting a suicide verdict for Kate Fitzgerald. There were 3 uniformed Gardaí shepherded by their uniformed sergeant for the duration of the inquest. There was Detective Superintendent Gabriel O’Gara, Detective Sergeant John Doyle, Detective Mark Looby, and another unknown detective. There were also two people from the Garda Ombudsman’s office in the audience.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]Inaudible[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]The Gardai were represented by a barrister with either one or two solicitors (depending on the day). The Garda barrister spoke in a low voice away from the microphone such that she could not be heard by the audience or the family. Mr Fitzgerald asked the registrar repeatedly on all three days of the inquest for the barrister to speak up so the family could hear her. She made no effort to do so. This made it extremely difficult to know what exactly she was trying to do with the evidence.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]What ligature?[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Evidence given at the inquest showed that of the five people on duty at the scene, only one could say with any certainty that he saw a ligature there. Two firemen/paramedics first to the scene around 1:30 or so could recall no ligature there. A third paramedic who arrived at 1:38 PM said he say ligature marks, but no ligature.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]The main investigating Garda could not recall a ligature at the scene, though he did recall seeing it around Kate’s neck at the morgue and found it “odd” that it was there. Dr Fakih who pronounced Kate dead at 2:50 PM could not recall seeing a ligature. Only the accompanying Garda, Patrick O’Neill seemed certain a ligature was there at the scene. Meanwhile, the ligature itself, whatever it was, had disappeared entirely, probably destroyed at the morgue. Even if the ligature had been there, because the body had been moved, only Brendan Bruen would have seen for sure how it was placed around the neck.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]Inquest or trial?[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Despite the fact that this was supposed to be an inquest, the Garda barrister had free rein to interrupt (which she did repeatedly) and to question every single witness whether or not the evidence concerned the GardaĂ­. The Garda barrister was the state prosecutor and Kate Fitzgerald was the defendant.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Unfortunately, this was a post-mortem trial,so Kate could not speak for herself. In spite of the trial structure, no one could be called as a defence witness for Kate. Even the jury, who showed great interest in the trial were given extremely tight instructions that virtually precluded from returning anything but a suicide verdict. “You will have to explain why you did not bring a suicide verdict” they were told by the coroner. Naturally, they only left the room for a matter of minutes.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]Silenced[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Despite having submitted a statement to the coroner on 26 February, and making repeated requests for an answer, the coroner’s office refused to give an indication on whether Kate’s father could testify at his own daughter’s inquest. Finally, in desperation, the family solicitor wrote a watered down statement to get him on the stand. The coroner and the Garda barrister even cut 30% out of this carefully worded statement and he was only allowed on the stand on VERY strict instructions that he could only answer questions and otherwise was not allowed to speak. Protocol forbad the family barrister from asking a question.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]It was NOT in the interest of the GardaĂ­ to have him speak and the coroner did not ask any questions, nor did the jury.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]That watered down statement was all the family was allowed to present on behalf of Kate. Kate’s mother had a short speech prepared, but that too was forbidden by the coroner. A close friend of Kate’s, Mary Kay Simmons, (aged in her mid 80s and almost blind) desperately wanted to speak on Kate’s behalf but was discouraged from doing so for fear of being harassed on the stand by the Garda barrister.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]No one was allowed to speak for Kate at this inquest. The family wanted to read a letter from Ernst and Young manager John Ward, who spoke effusively of Kate’s interview for a Senior PR position only four days before she died. We were not able to find a way to do that.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]
Investigation of the scene of death[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]With regard to searching the scene of the crime, Garda Dave Healy, the lead Garda investigator, stated very clearly as follows in his statement[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]“I didn’t ask Claire or Brendan (the people who found the body) to point out where the body of Kate Fitzgerald was found hanging. I spoke to them very briefly and I did not bring them back into the house. They just said that they had found her hanging from a frame behind the bedroom door. I didn’t examine that area. I can’t remember what was behind the door. I didn’t search the bedroom” and later he says:“The scene was not technically examined. I gave the bedroom a cursory search. I gave the living room a cursory search also.”[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]On the stand Garda Healy stated that he did not take photographs of the scene as he was not aware of any Garda procedure to do so.He stated he had never been to a death scene before and that he only recalled some of the information he had learned in Templemore about what the procedure was. He said he did not consult with any senior Garda or detective about what to do at the scene. He did not consider any option besides suicide.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]Controlling access to the scene[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Under questioning Garda Healy said he had no knowledge of Kate Fitzgerald’s keys The keys that he used and took back to the station, was the spare key held by Derek Lande and used to access the house that day. He did not see Kate’s keys in the house and he did not look for them. He conducted a visual inspection of the windows. He did not mention that the back window in the kitchen was not lockable. This was known to the family since Kate moved in. She sometimes used it to get in if she forgot her keys. Two days later, and before any result from the autopsy, the Gardaí gave the keys to the house to Kate’s friends and they cleared everything out. There was no protection and no preservation of the scene.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]Testimony[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Brendan Bruen’s description of the way Kate was hanging in his first statement is as follows:[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]“Kate was hanging from the top shelf of the boiler press behind the door. She was barely off the ground so her neck was very tightly up against the shelf.“[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]In his second statement, taken in June 2012, his description is very consistent and slightly more detailed:[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]“The shelf is latted and she had a belt, brown (light) fabric material knotted to the shelf and around her neck. I opened the knot on the lats and took her down. The knot on the shelf was a very short distance from the part of the belt around her neck.”[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]Under questioning, he said it was 6-9 inches between her neck and the shelf. From this description there did not appear to be enough ligature length to put the belt around her own neck, while it would have been easy enough for someone else to do it.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]In Clare Hayes Brady’s testimony she said:[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]“I honestly believe and recall that when I saw Kate her feet were in front of her and it seemed her heels were on the floor.”[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]This description sounds more consistent with someone being dragged to the place of hanging than self-hanging. Combined with the “very short” belt, it does raise serious questions which now cannot be answered. None of this was discussed at the inquest.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]
Pathologists’ reports[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Pathologist Dr Sabah was asked to read her statement under oath. We all had copies and could read along with her. However when she got to the cause of death, she substituted the word “hanging” instead of “ligature strangulation”.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]She called it a typographical error, when in fact there are distinct definitions. According to a chief medical examiner, “Strangulation should not be used as a synonym for hanging. Strangulation is defined as asphyxia by closure of the blood vessels and/ or air passages of the neck as a result of external pressure on the neck.”[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]Even now, we are not sure how Kate died.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]For 21 months, the autopsy report has stated that she died of asphyxia due to Ligature strangulation, but since it was brought out that there were no petechia mentioned in the autopsy report. Dr. Cassidy simply changed the verdict to death by coronary right there on the stand. The fact that this changes just about everything about the investigation seemed to matter not a bit to the coroner.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]We were going to get suicide no matter what. The coroner kindly noted that this must be easier for the family since it claims she died instantly. No effort was made to see if everything else fit in with an instant death by coronary. For example, if she died instantly, why was the brain 30% heavier than normal? There was a brief probe from the family barrister about the fact that instant death means she would not have marks from a struggle from an assailant, but that was largely ignored.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]In November 2001, Marie Cassidy gave a speech at Athlone IT on ten ways to commit the perfect murder. By her definition, Kate’s death was the perfect murder. She said that it is possible to strangle someone and then hang them up to make it look like suicide. But she added: “You have to be careful, you can’t leave any marks.”[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][FONT=inherit]Hyoid bone[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]A small bone under the tongue well above the larynx was broken. This bone can only be broken by a sharply focused pressure that pushes in at the top of the throat.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Our family research shows that it happens in less than 3% of suicidal hangings. It happens even less in victims under 40. Kate died at age 25.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]It happens less with a soft ligature. Kate’s was a soft ligature. It happens less with a wide ligature. Kate’s was a wide ligature. It happens less with a short drop. Kate’s drop was a matter of inches. It happens less when the ligature mark is at or below the laryngeal prominence. Kate’s ligature mark was on the larynx.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Dr. Cassidy quoted one study based on only 160 cases in Ireland and made no reference to this complicated set of issues. A Di Maio and Di Maio study quoted by Dr Cassidy in her statement had 83 hangings and not a single broken hyoid bone. But she didn’t mention that part of the study. There are numerous other studies showing how rare hyoid bone fractures are in suicidal hanging. In one 257 hangings, no fracture. In another 500 hangings, no fracture.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]It happens much more often in manual strangulation. Dr Fakih, the doctor who pronounced Kate dead, noted an indentation at the right side of Kate’s neck, in the area of the hyoid bone. Dr Fakih thought it could be from the buckle or knot, but acknowledged it could also be from a thumb.[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit]Brendan Bruen, who was the only person to fully see the hanging and take her down, testified that the buckle or knot was at the back of her neck and she was facing away from the shelving from which she hung.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit]In summary, this inquest has raised more questions than it answered. There was no proper investigation of the scene. The testimony was not balanced. Kate Fitzgerald did not get justice and her family will continue to fight. We do not want this to happen to any other family.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=16px][FONT=Helvetica][FONT=inherit][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]

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[quote=“Rocko, post: 784722, member: 1”]Kate’s parents have issued a rather curious statement which is on Broadsheet which expresses dissatisfaction with the Coroner’s Court ruling on her death being a suicide last week.

It’s probably not right to be still printing stuff like that - the parents are basically alleging a conspiracy with the Gardaí and Marie Cassidy involved. Weird comments in it like “Marie Cassidy gave a speech at Athlone IT on ten ways to commit the perfect murder.”

I didn’t think the cause of death was up for debate until now and to be honest their statement reads a bit like a family who haven’t come to terms with the reality of their daughter’s depression and death. [/quote]

thought the same Rocko. It seemed to me like an open and shut case, and given the circumstances still seems like that. Have the family any reason to believe she was murdered for a reason or any suspects in mind? it just reads too much like a complicated conspiracy theory.

94

Of course they are going to question everything. They were repeatedly lied to and the case was dealt with very poorly. It stinks to the high heavens.

I’m not saying it was not suicide, but I completely get what ha brought them to this point. In fairness, quite a few people should be fired over the misleading.

95

The lack of investigation by the Guards seems very strange. If you kill someone and make it look like a suicide it would seem you’d get away with it. Not saying she was killed, but it would have ruled that out fairly quickly if even a brief investigation was done.
Another fine example of the Guards fucking up then closing ranks

96

That’s it, the cops not having a protocol for such a scene is bizarre in the extreme as well, totally bizarre in fact.

97

Is it not just the case that she killed herself because she had to deal with working for that thundering cunt Prone?

98

The Gardaí certainly don’t come out of it very professionally. And clearly this is their daughter’s life so the parents are going to want everything investigated. But there’s a difference between poor protocol etc and not accepting a result that the pathologist and other experts would have no vested interest in inventing or leaning towards.

I’m always wary of the isolated use of statistics, such as those presented. Without wanting to sound too crass, you could say that less than 5% of hangings take place in a living room, so why did this one etc? When the coroner is looking to establish and record the cause of death, they’re looking at the most likely cause and are only really going to listen to evidence that casts significant doubt on it. So it’s one thing arguing that a particular mark could have been caused by something else, it would be a different argument altogether if any of the evidence was inconsistent with the cause of death - and none of it seems to rule out suicide - a cause of death that is also consistent with her mental health, given her previous attempts to take her own life.

99

I don’t think I’m making my point clearly. I’m not really arguing with the experts or the case they presented. It’s all about the cops being useless, lying, covering up etc. this is what led to a complete mistrust if all legal authority. I totally understand their mistrust and why they are being so microscopic about everything.

Cops need to be fired. Set a precedence. You cannot have such a massive hole in the legal system.

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[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 784976, member: 273”]

Cops need to be fired. Set a precedence. You cannot have such a massive hole in the legal system.[/quote]

is that not two different things?..do cops not police within their powers under the legal system?..if there is a hole in the legal system its a totally different matter…