The All Ireland Senior Football Championship 2012

Sport
881

the Dubs should be up a gear from the last day and I would think they’ll have too much for Meath…think Gilroy has seen that the meath centre forward (carroll?) caused kildare serious problems with his non stop running and has dropped brennan as he’s far too loose for a lad like that…connolly is massive loss for dublin alright…heard he kicked something like 3-10 in a recent club game…Meath probably have the best selection of goalscoring forwards in the country…sheridan,ward,farrell, bray, padear byrne all have an eye for goal so dublin need to be wary…its how meath beat them last time…they scored 4 or 5 goals against us…

Meath are coming with a team but i don’t think they are quite there yet…Dublin by 5+…keep the cunts down… :guns: :guns:

882

Ah lovely.

http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-more-a-green-than-golden-generation-of-the-kingdom-1-4077763

Brolly’s Bites - More a Green than Golden generation of The Kingdom

By Joe Brolly
Published on Friday 20 July 2012 12:52

The problem with this Kerry team is that they have always failed when it has really been put up to them.

Pat Spillane is very keen to point out that in the numbers game, they have more All-Irelands than Tyrone. But this disguises the reality that deep down in their bones, Kerry folk have always had doubts about this group. They are of course fine footballers and will retire with trophy cabinets sagging under the weight of gold. But at the very highest level, against serious opposition, they have always wilted. The first hint that they were not on a par with the Golden Years crop came in 2003 when they collapsed entirely in the face of Tyrone’s furious indignation.

“Sweet mother of Mikey Sheehy,” they wailed in the Kingdom. “They’re tackling Darragh O’Se.” As the game wore on and it became plain that this particular Tyrone team was not going to succumb to stage fright in the face of the green and gold jerseys, it was the Kerry men who gave up. It was a surrender that would have been unthinkable for O’Dwyer’s crew. For the record, Kerry scored a miserable six points and lost by seven.

In 2004, the Team of the Decade beat up a Conor Mortimer inspired Mayo in the final, spraying champagne midway through the first half after Colm Cooper scored a delightful goal having soloed through untouched by human hand. Funny thing, I haven’t seen Colm scoring a delightful goal against Tyrone in Croke Park, or any sort of goal. Which brings me to another subject that I have been reflecting upon anxiously over the last six months: Is Colm as great as I once thought he was? The skills are of course peerless. He is magnificent when the Kingdom are beating up on Mayo or the old Cork team. But I am beginning to have my doubts. I watched him closely in this year’s club semi-final against Crossmaglen. Crokes went seven points up. He had not contributed. Then, Crossmaglen - against all the odds - began their comeback. Now, I thought to myself, now Cooper will lead them home. I waited, and waited, and waited. In the face of Crossmaglen’s furious indignation, the golden boy disappeared. Jamie Morgan, an aggressive, tight marking and hugely competitive corner back with no county experience and aged just 21, utterly dominated him. An American tourist would never have believed it if you’d told him The Gooch was one of the greats. If however you’d told him he was a choker, he would have agreed, since that is what Colm did against Cross. As their key man floundered, so did his team mates. When you think about it, there is a pattern. When Tyrone put it up to him in 2005 and 2008 he failed. When Dublin put it up to him in last year’s final, he failed, leaving it to Donaghy to lead the attack. Think on the other hand of how many times Mikey Sheehy, ‘Bomber’ Liston or my good friend Pat turned games on their head. No quitters on that team.

In 2003, Tyrone put it up to them and Kerry wilted. The next year, the ‘Green and Gold’ were back to beat up Mayo in a one sided cakewalk. Let’s be fair about it, they could have thrown their jerseys onto the field and Mayo would have surrendered. In 2005, Tyrone put it up to them again and again the Kingdom quit after a great start saw them surge clear. It is typical of bullies that when a strong start doesn’t deter the opponent, they begin to doubt themselves.

In 2006, hip hip hooray, it was Mayo again. Oh how they laughed in the Kingdom when the news came through on the wireless. Come the day of the final, John Morrison’s prediction that Mayo would be Brazil against Kerry’s England prompted a new entry in Private Eye’s ‘Coleman Balls’. The game was over after 15 minutes, which is just the way Kerry like it. Star and Gooch ran riot and Pat put another notch in his bed post. A 13-point margin. In 2007 it was Cork. Again, game over after ten minutes and a cushty 10 point win.

In 2008, Tyrone again. Kerry huffed and puffed for a good while that day. Like the Big Bad Wolf they threatened to blow down the Tyrone house. But like the Big Bad Wolf, they chickened out at the finale. With four minutes to go it was a draw. In the RTE soft seats though, we knew what was coming. I nudged Patrick with my elbow and said, “Hard luck.” “F*** off” he said. Tyrone duly reeled off five unanswered points.

In 2009, hip hip hooray, it was Cork again and another one sided canter. By God, the Kerry men were throwing their weight about that day. “Fair play to you, Tadgh.” they roared in the Kingdom. Why didn’t they do that the previous year? In 2010, Kerry were fazed by the fact that Down were totally unfazed. It was the referee’s fault don’t you know. Last year, they were fazed by the fact that Gilroy had discarded the startled earwigs and replaced them with an army of worker ants. Dublin stuck with them for 60 minutes. Again, the bullies yielded.

On Saturday, everything is stacked in the Kingdom’s favour. Home venue, everyone fully fit, their destroyer in chief Sean Cavanagh injured and a Tyrone team not at the level of its predecessors. Yet Tyrone don’t give a damn about their green and gold. If Kerry can finally stand up and by that I mean all of them, not just Tomas and Marc O’Se, then this could be the path to another All-Ireland. But far more importantly, it will be the path to self respect. Something Tyrone have never had to worry about…

883

Brolly seems to have a real chip on his shoulder about Munster teams. Cork are dumb, Kerry are bullies. Someone should really look into those four all Irelands that Kerry won too. It seems as though they were given a bye to the final and all they had to do was beat Mayo or Cork to win it then. I seem to have a strange memory of these real men from Tyrone having their arses handed to them by Cork before Kerry beat us in the 2009 final too.

884

Joe Brolly is correct. Just like Nadal has Federer’s number, Tyrone have Kerry’s. Just like Nadal is the greatest player in the history of tennis, this Tyrone side is the greatest in the history of bogball. Federer won a lot of empty titles where he did not have to beat Nadal, likewise that Kerry side won a lot of empty titles as they did not have to beat Tyrone. Kerry and Federer can not truly be considered the greatest as they were constantly getting outplayed by the greatest. Kerry, like Federer, would swap nearly all their titles if they could have the upper hand over their superior rival.

885

There is not one part of this post that makes sense, but credit totti, his love for bogball knows no bounds :clap:

886

Whatever about the argument of Kerry falling short of greatness, his ‘slamming’ off the Gooch is so far off the mark it’s ridiculous. It’s the ultimate in bullshit sports analysis that if your team loses everyone on that team ultimately failed or was useless.
He’s calling him a bottler based on one bad game for Crokes v Cross ffs, when in fairness he was bet up a stick. I’m sure the same happened Sheehy and Spillane on occasion. Cooper would have been man of the match if Kerry had won any of the three finals he mentions 05, 08 or last year. I was at all three and without looking up the stats he scored at least 3/4 points from play in each final, and a goal last year, and was Kerry’s most dangerous forward throughout those games. Some of the scores he got in each final were out of the very top drawer. Complete shite from Brolly.

887

I disagree with Totti’s comparison of Tyrone v Kerry to Federer v Nadal as that’s a genuine rivalry in which you never know which player is going to win. Whereas with the Tyrone v Kerry “rivalry” of the 00s it was all one way traffic, so it could hardly be called a genuine rivalry.

888

This is a poor Kerry team, Tyrone might not take them as they’re tough to beat in Killarney and this Tyrone side is middling enough, but I fully expect them to be gone as soon as they meet some quality. I’ll have a cut off Tyrone though at the weekend

889

http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/meath-580x433.jpg

890

Will someone please post a link up for tomorrow’s game so I can watch my beloved Tyrone.

Thank you.

891

+1

Kerry played well in both finals against Tyrone which were a far superior standard to the shite of the last few years. The whole if you lose you are a bottler is utter shite and the American tourist analogy just adds to the nonsense. Cooper was probably man of the match in the final last year

892

Brolly is sullied in many ways as a journo. He has points about this Kerry team though and they have certain weaknesses. On a day with a new tactic they are very vulnerable. They struggle to adapt on the pitch, Darragh O Se admitted this only last week ( in his always improving weekly column). When Jack has had time to look at teams an evaluate they are extremely hard to beat. The indiscipline and general dislikability of a few players also clouds people’s judgement, but from an individual football point of view there has hardly been a more talented bunch. They just as a team ate more flawed than the great Spillane, Bomber, Sheehy era. They were a far more settled, consistent and more harmonious team IMO. Galvin, Gooch, the 3 O’Se’s, Mike Mac, Tom O’ Sullivan were all elite players And arguably the best players ever in their positions but nearly all let their team down with discipline during games or during seasons. At the very start of this team was Dara O Cinneade and Johnny Crowley, 2 of the most astute footballers I ever saw, for different reasons. Tommy Walsh is probably one of the most skilled big men I have ever seen but has gone. Donaghy was very effective for gooch and added some wonderful scores to his athletic ability. But I would not class him as great. They had alot if other players who contributed on certains days but were not of the caliber of player of the 70-80’s team.

Basically I feel the very big difference was on pitch leaders, the 70’s team had numerous but this team had few, but alot of talented guts who’s when things were going well they were unstoppable, but if anyone upset them a bit they would struggle.

They also 3 times underestimTed Tyrone, that shows me that maybe they are not quite the smartest bunch of footballers ever to grace the top stage.

Funny enough, had Dara O Cinneade been 4-5 years younger I think his brains and his standing would have covered up alot of the flaws and we’d be talking about them like KK in hurling, but we’re not and they were not that good.

On Brolly, I hate this “bottling” shite. 99 times out of a 100 the winning team has better players playing well or a better gameplan than the opposition and carry it put to perfection on the day from an a smart coach drilling it both mentally and physically into a team. Kerry had better players available than Cork in 09, and carried out a very effective gameplan. They had far far better players than Mayo and executed a gameplan that exploited Mayo’s limitations both times. It’s that simple. People, and Kerry more than anyone, underestimated Tyrones actual footballing ability and skill. On one occasion they were outfought, on both others they were outplayed and outthought by better opposition. So equally I don’t think Kerry bottled it, they just were not as good as Tyrone due to a clash of styles. I think this also stops Kerry being considered the best team of last decade and certainly not of all time.

893

Kev,
You could say that about most teams. Tipp (hurling) struggled to deal with Dublin playing an extra defender in all ireland semi last year, KK struggled to deal with same tactic versus clare in 2002. Amateur teams find it hard enough to ‘perfect’ their own system/tactics yet alone the ability to respond to something new.

I agree with your last paragraph.

894

Kev

I agree with some of you points and some not.

Re bottling I dont with that. It suggests that the losing team should some how have won. The vast majority of the time the better team wins. Tyrone were better than Kerry in 03 05 and 08. To say Kerry bottled it I think sets out to demean Kerry and Tyrone.

In addition the Kerrys golden years team were and remain the greatest team of all time. Any other team will fail under that comparison.

Who is better between Kerry and Tyrone over all is subjective. Tyrone have 3 wins and 3 titles but Kerry won more and were more consistent.

I would also say Tryone had some of the best players ever: Canavan, McGuigan O’Neill etc. They also had the best management team in a long time in Harte and Donnelly.

Dont know who will win today but looking forward to it. It wont settle scores from the last decade no matter what the result.

895

You Leitrim cunts are some shower wouldnt even give a lad some tips for a trip to Carrick :guns:

Boxty I may need somewhere to stay later, make up the spare bed for me :pint:

896

History shows that the Brits rarely prosper in Munster. Kerry to beat these Brits handy enough.

897

Really looking forward to seeing the mighty Tyrone decimate these yellow-bellied staters again.

898

Somehorse,
I will somewhat disagree with you here. In knockout championship on any given day the team that wins is the best team on that day. This is not to say that they are the best team in an overall context. This could only be discerned if matches were played over a best of 5 or 7 series as happens in US basketball, baseball or hockey.

I can see why lads would argue that Tyrone in the modern era are a better team than Kerry due to their head to head record when viewed in the context of a ‘series’. This is somewhat skewed due to the fact that Kerry have being far more consistent over a longer period whereas Tyrone have peaked and troughed somewhat i.e. Tyrone were are to recharge their batteries which helped them to reach an intensity level that Kerry could not match.

899

[quote=“Somehorse, post: 675881”]Kev

I agree with some of you points and some not.

Re bottling I dont with that. It suggests that the losing team should some how have won. The vast majority of the time the better team wins. Tyrone were better than Kerry in 03 05 and 08. To say Kerry bottled it I think sets out to demean Kerry and Tyrone.

In addition the Kerrys golden years team were and remain the greatest team of all time. Any other team will fail under that comparison.

Who is better between Kerry and Tyrone over all is subjective. Tyrone have 3 wins and 3 titles but Kerry won more and were more consistent.

I would also say Tryone had some of the best players ever: Canavan, McGuigan O’Neill etc. They also had the best management team in a long time in Harte and Donnelly.[/quote]

I said Kerry did not bottle it, I don’t believe too much in “bottling”. I think you actual agree with me here. Good point on Tyrones players.

But I believe Tyrone beating Kerry 3 times on the big day males them better than Kerry, end of story really. Have they been as consistent with that brilliance and with trophies ? No they haven’t, but in a Kerry-Tyrone situation Tyrone are kings for that period, mo question.

Fenway- the bigger point I’m making really is they stupidly did the sMe thing 3 times, let their better players be taken out of the game and nobody, especially the players themselves, ha the cop on in any of the 3 games to rectify this. I would argue Tyrone would be a far more adaptatable team.

900

Goes back to a point you made above and something I strongly believe in myself i.e. no matter how talented a group of players you have at your disposal, you need ‘leaders’ to be be successful. All great teams have had them and the reason why some teams who appear richly talented fail is that they lack ‘leaders’ or do not possess enough of them.