And the guns were often luxuries.
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I doubt that either depends what the alternative would have been. If just straight remain like the Scots I’d presume no chance. Is there any evidence of what the result might have been? Were any of the constituencies properly fought out or debated even between SF and the IPP.
Only 7 votes pushed the treaty
Margaret Pearse, mother of Pádraig Pearse spoke strongly against the Treaty: “It has been said here on several occasions that Pádraig Pearse would have accepted this Treaty. I deny it. As his mother I deny it, and on his account I will not accept it,” she said.
Please was a deviant. A sociopath I’d say… He was probably abused himself as a kid but he was fond of very young boys.
If there had been a referendum for leaving the United Kingdom in 1916 or 1918 it very likely would have lost. If one had happened at the end of 1921 or early 1922 it probably would have passed. But then again it might not have have because you might have had a division within the pro-independence side in a similar way to how the Aussies lost their Republic referendum in 1999 because the pro-Republic side was divided on what form of Republic they wanted.
The fighting happened to create martyrs, to create a reaction and to create a perception that the Brits were monsters, thus changing public sentiment to a pro-independence one.
The PIRA campaign which started in 1970 could never, ever have worked in the same way because of the simple fact that a hefty majority of the people in the six counties were dyed in the wool Unionists. It held back any possibility of a united Ireland and changed it from an issue of territory and polity which was already deeply tribal to an issue which could never, ever be divided from the memory of mass slaughter and the much deeper long term divisions that caused. It only played into the hands of Unionists. Before 1970 Unionists had no moral ground whatsoever on which to stand, they were in the same boat as the white supremacists of the US south and apartheid South Africa. By 1972 they had the perfect excuse to drive the mantra that the Catholics wanted to kill them all.
Provoking your enemy into being a cunt if you are the majority or have a great chance of becoming the majority by doing so is a very successful tactic.
Never
There were some good updates on this yesterday
TDs went home for Christmas and read the mood music.
If you consider even the 1918 election, aside from Southern Unionists the Irish Parliamentary Party received a significant number of votes but just 6 seats (none who sat in the Dáil).
I would guess a conservative 60% support, maybe 2 in 3 whilst it was more like 55/45 (as reflected in the Treaty vote in the Dáil) amongst Sinn Féin TDs following that Christmas pressure (may have been lost if it had taken place before Christmas). The 1922 election showed that the combined vote of the Pro Treaty SF, Labour Party, Farmers party and other parties was c 67%. Of course Labour (who got over 20% of the vote) did not take an official position on the Treaty and their key players were split on the matter, however, my view on this is that their voters would have been significant exercised against the Treaty to have voted for anti Treaty candidates otherwise. The system used was STV for the first time, so the result was more representative
Plenty of excuses (there was the threat of war from England!) are made on 1922 but I’m comfortable enough with saying that 60% is a conservative guess for the south of Ireland and it was more like 2 in 3. It is the inconvenient election for many as it was pre Civil War and demonstrated no appetite for such a conflict that happened anyway.
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An ooft there from Erskine Childers.
A double oooft really, to Griffith and Welsh national pride.
No wonder they had him taken out and shot for having a cap gun.
It was a present- presentation weapon used as an excuse to exterminate the threat
Done up n down the country
Decent anti treaty song
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A new bloody low
What excuse can anyone do for damaging any memorial etc irrespective of wars
Our fight for freedom or the 14-18 ww
I personally don’t hold with any attack or defacement of any memorial or gathering at such including that Enniskillen cenotaph attack
I was a republican at the time and thankfully most of my contemporaries didn’t agree at all with what happened
It included RIC I think did it not?
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It did. Its a good news story.