Against my expectations this has been a decent first half between Australia and South Africa. South Africa started superbly but the Aussies regrouped very well and have owned the ball for the last 20 minutes. Spies could have been in the bin twice before he was eventually put there and the SAfrican defence has been quite desparate.
I presume South Africa were favourites but sometimes it’s impossible to tell with the coverage we get here. After South Africa hammered England we were told on Sky that they are by far and away the second best team in the world. Stupidly I believed that (on the basis of a decent Super 14 for their teams) but Butch James at out half and Montgomery at full back? That’s not world class, far from it. They’ve a cracking pack but they’re fairly one-paced.
I don’t think either side are as good as Ireland to be honest.
Cheers for this post rocko. Watched the 2nd half after you mentioned it and I thought it was a belter. I don’t often say this about rugby. I actually don’t Ireland would cope with either of those teams playing the way they did today. Are we as good as we think we are?
It was a cracking game alright Bandage but while the match itself was a good pairing I’m not sure about the quality on show. Some of the mistakes that handed points away were dreadful. Australian pack defending their line like maniacs with 8 minutes to go and a 3 point lead. Then they get a turnover at a lineout (laughably missed by the tv producers who had spotted an average enough looking chick in the crowd to focus on instead) and the ball is handed on a plate to Larkham. He panicked, looked afraid of contact and chipped the ball forward 20 yards for Steyn to nail an admittedly impressive drop goal.
Then when the Aussies got the ball back they lost possession twice in the South African half in the last 5 minutes before Steyn dropped another goal. There was still time for Australia but their skills weren’t up to it.
We hammered both those sides in the autumn - weaker touring sides but not far off what went out on the park today. There’s plenty of mediocrity there and I’d fancy Ireland against either of them.
I think it’s definitely relevant they both had weaker touring sides and it was coming to the end of the southern hemisphere season. Come the RWC in September they’ll have their strongest outfits on the pitch and all teams should be on a level playing field physically. I think both of those sides would beat us. I actually blame Gregan for delaying the pass and then looping it to Larkham’s bad side. It was a cracking drop goal though.
Didn’t see the game but I wouldn’t be inclined to rate either of them based on their touring sides last Autumn. South Africa in particular were quite depleted. Put Botha, Matfield and Burger into any pack and you’ll seriously beef it up.
It’s very hard to know how good we are at the moment, espcially because the Six Nations was pretty average. The French were poor enough against us and lost to England. We bottled our big chance and everyone else was crap. With the honourable exception of Italy actually.
I’d probably back us to beat Australia and maybe South Africa in Dublin but not down there. In a World Cup match, I think it’d be fifty fifty against Australia but that South Africa would take us. They’d simply overpower us. Their backs might be a bit pedestrian, espcially in comparison to ours, but its been repeatedly shown that better backs don’t matter if your pack is beaten up. Think Leinster Munster Heineken Cup semi. Though I generally try not to.
Well if Australia had executed some basic handling skills correctly in the last 5 minutes they’d have won the match. Gregan knocked one ball on appallingly, then he combined with Larkham to give possession away then someone else knocked the ball on brutally. Other than that Australia matched this awesome South African pack and if there’s one certainty about Australian rugby - it’s that their pack is pretty crap.
South Africa have a decent pack in terms of bulk and physique but they’re not all that dynamic as a unit. Their maul was poor today for example and their rucking not much better. It’s fine having 3 or 4 20 stone back-rowers who are big and strong and relatively quick but if they’re just running at the same channel all day then it’s handy enough to contain.
If South Africa had blown Australia away today I’d have been worried about them. As it was they deserved to lose and were saved by a couple of late drop goals.
Agred on the lack of merit on rating teams based on touring sides but I think that there’s an element of overrating the southern teams now because we sent weak teams down there. The truth is that the best of the north and the best of the south are yet to meet eachother. I’m confident enough that Ireland are in the best position we’ve ever been in globally however.
As an aside did anyone see Stephen Jones’ world cup predictions in the Sunday Times 2 weeks ago?
I can’t remember the exact order but it was something like:
However, I actually think its his Welshness that makes him hate Ireland. And he does hate Ireland. It’s been a running theme for a few years now.
I think as a middle-aged Welshman who remembers the 1970s teams, he’s particularly offended by Ireland being better than Wales at rugby. It really, really gets to him and he just can’t seem to accept it.
He was also a vociferous opponent of regionalisation in Welsh rugby and I think he holds it against Ireland that the Welsh union moved to copy our model. Often when the provinces have a bad weekend in Europe he’ll write about the much-vaunted Irish system being shown up. This bugbear contributes to his advocacy of the club-based English Premiership.
For me, his anti-Ireland bias undermines his credibility as a rugby journalist. Though if iI’m honest, I’ve developed one of those love-hate relationships with him, where I look for his articles so that I can get offended by his opinons of Ireland.
Forgot to say, although I didnt’ see the game, I’d have to admit to being very surprised that the Austrailian pack held the Springboks. As you say Rocko, the Aussie pack is cack.
The way the Springboks can win games is by grinding down the opposition pack and through their blitz defence. If they can’t do that, they’re in trouble alright.
Yeah can’t disagree with that - it’s obviously galling for him to see Ireland overtake Wales and then see Wales try and emulate Ireland. We’re not a rugby hotbed, it’s not in our psyche or anything, yet we’re better than them. It obviously hurts.
I suppose Neil Francis has a similar irrational hatred of Wales so it’s not as though there isn’t an Irish equivalent. What I do object to though is Jones’ match reporting. By all means give the man a column where he can rant and where you can agree or disagree with him. However he is also chief rugby writer meaning he’s supposed to be a reporter as well as a columnist and he’s clearly incapable of separating the two points.
[quote=Fats ]
Forgot to say, although I didnt’ see the game, I’d have to admit to being very surprised that the Austrailian pack held the Springboks. As you say Rocko, the Aussie pack is cack.
The way the Springboks can win games is by grinding down the opposition pack and through their blitz defence. If they can’t do that, they’re in trouble alright.
What happened in the scrums and line-outs?[/quote]
At the start there were plenty of scrums being reset but no penalties that I remember really. Then it settled down and while Australia were getting nudged backwards they didn’t lose any ball from it - it was just like ball Leamy’s being picking up for Ireland and Munster.
On the lineouts again I’d say South Africa had a very slight edge but it appeared to be mostly down to throwing. I was only passively/casually watching so I wasn’t making a mental note of who was doing well or anything but there were certainly a couple of Aussie overthrows. In terms of second row steals Matfield got one on Sharpe anyway but Vickerman took a crucial ball from South Africa with about 10 minutes to go that could have been crucial. I’d say it was even enough other than a couple of poor throws - and by a couple I mean 2 not 4 or 5.
There’s a definite trend amongst rugby journalists to see themselves as tell-like-it-is, not-influenced-by-the-prevailing-consensus, tough talking types. You see that with Jones, but also with Neil Francis and Stuart Barnes. Even with Ciaran Cronin a little (though he’s made some foolish calls along the way, such as calling for O’Sullivan to be sacked 18 months ago).
Match reporting’s kind of an archaism at this stage. It obviously originally had a functional purpose but these days nearly everybody’s seen any match they’re interested in (in international rugby anyway) on the telly. So reallly you’re looking more for insights into the ebb and flow of a game and tactical analysis. This is inherently more subjective than simple reporting on the game, so it’s probably inevitable that journalists like Jones’ opinion creep into the article more.
The unbelievable thing is that Stephen Jones actually won Sports Journalist of the Year. As far as I’m aware, he doesn’t write about any other sport.