You struggle with the concept that football is a team game. Before this great Barcelona team (and its talismanic leader Messi) came along, Barcelona had won the European Cup once in 50 years. In the last 10 seasons, they’ve won it on four occasions.
It was Juventus and Italian football that came up short last night, not Messi.
Juventus, now the biggest losers in European Cup finals. 6 final defeats from 8 appearances, moving ahead of the 5 defeats of Benfica and Bayern. For the supposed standard bearers of catenaccio, that was unacceptable defending last night - the joint worst defensive performance by an Italian side in 27 final appearances, emulating the three goals conceded by Milan in 1958 and Juventus themselves in 1997.
When it comes to Italian football, is there ever anything other than an ageing and decrepid side? The age profile of last night’s Juventus starting team featured a 37 year old, a 36 year old, two who were 34, two 31 and a 29. The unwillingness of Italian football to give youth its chances is indicative of many of the failings of Italy as a nation and a society. A country full of mammy boys tied at home to their mother’s apron strings until they reach middle age.
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1154978, member: 377”]You struggle with the concept that football is a team game. Before this great Barcelona team (and its talismanic leader Messi) came along, Barcelona had won the European Cup once in 50 years. In the last 10 seasons, they’ve won it on four occasions.
It was Juventus and Italian football that came up short last night, not Messi.
Juventus, now the biggest losers in European Cup finals. 6 final defeats from 8 appearances, moving ahead of the 5 defeats of Benfica and Bayern. For the supposed standard bearers of catenaccio, that was unacceptable defending last night - the joint worst defensive performance by an Italian side in 27 final appearances, emulating the three goals conceded by Milan in 1958 and Juventus themselves in 1997.[/QUOTE]
Yes, football is a team game, which is why Messi has won diddly squat with Argentina. He’s not a great player, he’s not a team player, throwing his toys out of the pram when he is not deployed as manager, picking who manages the team, undermining his coach. He’s an egomaniac obsessed with personal scoring records and recognition, for a player who thrives on goals, he’s only been able to deliver them from play in 1 game out of 11 against Italian.
Great players blend to those around him, Messi throws his toys about of the pram, goes behind his managers back and issues a list of conditions of how the team should play to suit his own needs. How many more World Cups will he bottle?
This discussion is about Messi and his failure to do it against Italian teams, not about the teams he plays in, not about Italian teams record in finals so the reasoning of you bringing those issues into this topic is a sure fire sign of the absolute pounding you are taking here. They are separate debates and ones which you want to shift focus on in as it’s an absolute fact that Messi doesn’t do it against Italian teams, much like Colm Cooper doesn’t do it against Ulster sides.
Our youngsters have respect for their elders in society. Compare that to the Oirish and the disgrace they made of the parents who brought them into the world in the recent referendum, happy to grandstand and get one-upmanship on them for the sake of their perception from others. Italian society is ingrained in respect, I wouldn’t expect you to understand our noble culture.
You might want to digest this information in relation to your irrefutable point about Messi scoring in one game from play in the 11 times he has faced Italian opposition.
Here’s some goal footage from the 2012/13 last 16 tie between Bareclona & Milan. You’ll find Messi scoring the first and second goals from play as Barcelona won 4-0.
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1154984, member: 377”]You might want to digest this information in relation to your irrefutable point about Messi scoring in one game from play in the 11 times he has faced Italian opposition.
Here’s some goal footage from the 2012/13 last 16 tie between Bareclona & Milan. You’ll find Messi scoring the first and second goals from play as Barcelona won 4-0.
You should really stop spreading erroneous falsehood’s about Lionel Messi, the world’s greatest player and take your beating with some level of dignity.[/QUOTE]
So it’s in fact 3 games in 13 as opposed to 1 in 11. I forgot about last year. Hardly game changing is it? The fact is Messi’s game is revolved around goals and from play he badly struggles to come up with the goods against Italian teams, against weaker teams he can shoot the lights out but against Italian teams he struggles. Messi is not a great player, we’re just going through a poor enough patch of footballers right now - he would not have been in the top 20 in the world 20 years ago. He shit his pants in the knockout stage of the World Cup last summer, providing one assist and no goals in 450 minutes of knockout football.
A great man to get a manager to fuck every other teammate he has over and take drugs and shoot the lights out when every favourable condition he wants is met. Ask him to do something when the odds are skewed against him, he shits it.
He’s a big baby and not a great.
10:3 - that’s the ratio of Messi not scoring in games against Italian opposition from play than him scoring. Do you think that cuts it for the “best player in the world”?
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1154984, member: 377”]You might want to digest this information in relation to your irrefutable point about Messi scoring in one game from play in the 11 times he has faced Italian opposition.
Here’s some goal footage from the 2012/13 last 16 tie between Bareclona & Milan. You’ll find Messi scoring the first and second goals from play as Barcelona won 4-0.
You should really stop spreading erroneous falsehoods about Lionel Messi, the worlds greatest player and take your beating with some level of dignity.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=“Distended Red Anus, post: 1154989, member: 2648”]Jesus, that is the mother of all clampings.
Rebrand time for the Kid.[/QUOTE]
So you think scoring from play in 3 goals in 13 games against Italian teams is sufficient for the “best player in the world” who has shot the lights out in scoring records?
If you’re talking about the Messi era, you could probably throw in the 2005/06 semi final against Milan as well. I don’t know off the top of my head if Messi featured in either (or both) leg. That was his breakthrough season, when he was largely a substitute. If you include those two games, Barcelona’s record against Italian opposition during Messi’s time at the club reads.
Played 15 Won 8 Drawn 5 Lost 2.
In a knock out context, Barcelona have won 4 out of 5 ties against Italian opposition in that timeframe.
Beat Milan 3 teams out of 3 - semi finals in 2006, quarter finals in 2012 and round of 16 in 2013
Lost to Inter in 2010 semi final
Beat Juventus in last nights final.
Strikes me as Italian sides that are struggling against Barcelona and Messi, not the other way around.
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1154995, member: 377”]If you’re talking about the Messi era, you could probably throw in the 2005/06 semi final against Milan as well. I don’t know off the top of my head if Messi featured in either (or both) leg. That was his breakthrough season, when he was largely a substitute. If you include those two games, Barcelona’s record against Italian opposition during Messi’s time at the club reads.
Played 15 Won 8 Drawn 5 Lost 2.
In a knock out context, Barcelona have won 4 out of 5 against Italian opposition in that timeframe.
Beat Milan 3 teams out of 3 - semi finals in 2006, quarter finals in 2012 and round of 16 in 2013
Lost to Inter in 2010 semi final
Beat Juventus in last nights final.
Strikes me as Italian sides that are struggling against Barcelona and Messi, not the other way around.[/QUOTE]
Yes.
Barca’s record. There’s a lot more to Barca than Messi, an awful lot more. Barca may not have struggled against Italian teams in those years, then again Barca have financial resources that are in another planet to any Italian side right now. But Italian teams have not struggled against Messi, he has only scored from play in 3 of 13 games, this is a guy who usually shoots the lights out against teams from countries of lesser football stature. Again you are trying to divert away from the issues, this is Messi against Italian sides, not Barcelona. Please try and stay on track.
The fact is once Juve had to go chasing the game and they stopped double/triple teaming him he ran riot. He was at the heart of the second and third goals— Juve’s whole game plan revolved around stopping Messi in the first half and which left Lichsteiner expose a lot.
[QUOTE=“ChocolateMice, post: 1155007, member: 168”]so that’s 10 goals in his last 6 games
The fact is once Juve had to go chasing the game and they stopped double/triple teaming him he ran riot. He was at the heart of the second and third goals— Juve’s whole game plan revolved around stopping Messi in the first half and which left Lichsteiner expose a lot.[/QUOTE]
Juve didn’t focus on Messi, they actually allowed Barcelona loads of space as their approach to the game was ballsy and they committed loads of numbers forward. Suarez, Iniesta and Alba posed Juve much more problems than Messi did. It was the correct result in any case, Messi and Neymar cost more than the Juve starting XI!
