Ooooooooft
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As someone who thinks that health and social care should broadly be free to the user but that it’s not unreasonable for asset wealth to be used to pay for elderly care, then a broader based inheritance tax seems like a better idea than directly linking it to the assets of those that need to avail of the care.
All tough questions. Do you think anyone should pay for anything? Or the second we get sick/old we should get a free ride from the state? The problem is that the gap between what ‘should’ happen and what we or nearly every country in the world can afford to do is massive. Living a world of theoretics is lovely but absolute bollox.
The fair deal scheme, a large inheritance tax, they both need to happen. Because with an ageing population it’s impossible not to.
Your talk of not considering people who bought their council homes under Thatcher being rich is bollox. They are. Whether you consider them rich or not is immaterial. They have large assets and yet may be cash poor. So unlock some of their assets with a fair deal type scheme, while maintaining a threshold under which it cannot drop. We have a huge problem with wealth distribution in this country. A proper inheritance tax and people paying towards their own care are absolute neccessities for the future.
Provisions within inheritance & gift tax (CAT) to incentivise assets to be freed up for providing senior care for the asset holder would be a start.
That smacks to me of socialism. The kind of socialism I don’t like. The kind that’s designed to steal money off me and fund a huge health/state complex.
I’m in favour of higher income taxes across the board but particularly at the top end, and higher inheritance taxes, dum dum.
Overall tax take in both Ireland and the UK is too low.
We have a desperately progressive tax system in Ireland.
Perspectives on Ireland’s personal tax system
You’d never think it for all the commentary though.
Summary of Ireland’s Personal Tax System
Nine consecutive Budgets between 2009 and 2016 involved over 50 diff erent
tax changes that impacted Ireland’s personal tax system. It brought about
some unintended consequences in the system and created peculiar traits
across all salary levels.
Lower Income Levels
• A worker on €25,000 earns almost 1.4 times the salary of a person on €18,000 but pays
5.6 times the tax.
Average Wage Levels
• A worker on €35,000 earns 1.4 times the amount of a person on €25,000 and pays
1.9 times the amount of tax.
Squeezed Middle
• At a salary level of €55,000, an Irish taxpayer pays more tax than in Sweden, Spain,
Switzerland and the US. They pay over €800 more than a taxpayer in the UK.
€75,000 – The Cap Eff ect
• A worker on €75,000 earns 3 times the amount of a person on €25,000 and pays almost
8 times the amount of tax.
• A worker on €75,000 earns 2.1 times the amount of a person on €35,000 and pays over
4 times the amount of tax.
• At a salary level of €75,000, taxpayers in Ireland are paying rates close to France and
they pay over €4,500 more tax than their equivalents in the UK.
Higher Income Earners
A worker on €100,000:
• Earns 5.6 times the amount of a person on €18,000 and pays almost 66 times the
amount of tax.
• Earns 4 times the amount of a person on €25,000 and pays over 11.7 times the
amount of tax.
• Earns 2.9 times the amount of a person on €35,000 and pays over 6 times the
amount of tax.
A worker on €120,000:
• Earns 6.7 times the amount of a person on €18,000 and pays over 83 times the amount
of tax.
• Earns almost 4.8 times the salary of a person on €25,000 but pays 14.8 times the tax.
• Earns almost 3.4 times the salary of a person on €35,000 but pays 7.6 times the tax.
The tax multiple accelerates steeply as you move to higher income levels.
In Ireland, the top 10% of earners pay 29% of their incomes in tax. The bottom 10% pay 28%.
Not so progressive.
And I find it strange how you use the term “progressive” like it’s a bad thing.
I’ve got all other types of dictatorial socialism too if you fancy them. A cap on the profits of insurance and banking industries? And everybody should be made wear a generic type of fitbit which tracks their fatness and we punish unfit people for the strain they’ll put on society? But you can buy yourself a few kg with voluntary/community work?
I’m not against progressive tax systems.
I think what operates in Ireland is at the severe end of the scale, particularly for middle income units.
Where are you getting the figure of the bottom 10% paying 29% of their income? There are also other transfers and supports available to lower income groupings. This cohort are net beneficiaries.
Bascially, a fair deal type scenario for somebody with assets will be utterly disproportionate to the contribution made by others in society for the same care.
Ultimately blackguarding people out of their life savings to fund care that they probably don’t want and they don’t have the option of euthanasia will operate inevitably as a brake on enterprise and will have a fundamentally damaging impact on the economy and society.
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There will be teething problems…
Ireland takes 30% of GDP in tax, the UK 34%.
Denmark takes 50%.
The argument being made by the Tories that people should pay for social care entirely out of their own assets, if accepted as orthodoxy, could easily be applied to any other condition, and why wouldn’t it be if it’s accepted in this case?
It’s an argument in favour of an illness lottery, where if you get cancer, you’re covered, but if get Alzheimer’s, you’re on your own.
That’s a fundamental two fingers to the concept of universalism and the welfare state.
That’s a preposterous argument and well you know it.
We’re talking about income tax.
You are talking about VAT, etc.
While you are looking up Denmark there, will you figure out the breakdown between corporation tax, personal tax and tax on goods and services.
This I agree with
You’re making the same fundamental and deliberate confusion between “income tax” and “tax system”.
I thought you were an awful lefty?
Far from it …
What you can see when you look into it is that Ireland’s GDP is almost in the funny money stakes at this point
The OECD’s annual Revenue Statistics report found that the tax-to-GDP ratio in Ireland decreased by 5.1 percentage
points, from 28.7% in 2014 to 23.6% in 2015, due to Ireland’s exceptionally high GDP growth in 2015. The corresponding figures for the OECD average were an
increase of 0.1 percentage point from 34.2% to 34.3% over the same period.
Keep telling yourself. If you earn a relatively low amount, you are being screwed and the lads that earn a bit more should be taxed to pay for it.
Ireland’s tax take as a % of GDP has actually now declined to 23% as of 2016, which is 33rd out of 35 in the OECD. That’s probably down to the Leprechaun economics figures but we’ve been tipping along at 27-28% since 2007.
On some issues I am.
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