Uk affairs, The Double Lizzie Crisis (Part 1)

You left out the words “…which has adopted the IHRA definition.”

Selectively quoting part of a sentence in order to deliberately leave out the context is dishonest quoting.

The Tories never even adopted the IHRA definition.

Again, here’s what you said.

At 12:02. Lansmann responds to Guru-Murthy’s statement that “you’ve admitted yourself that you’ve more problems with anti-semitism than any other mainstream party in Britain”.

“I have not said that, I haven’t said we’ve got more problems.”

He goes on to say:

“The evidence actually shows that members and supporters of other parties there are proportionately greater… there are more instances of anti-semitism”.

That categorically proves you wrong.

And so does the evidence, which does indeed show that Labour supporters are less likely to be anti-semitic, than Tory supporters, who were found to be even more likely to be anti-semitic than UKIP supporters!

Now, this whole story has been relentlessly pushed by the Tory press ever since Corbyn became Labour leader, and again, we can all guess why that is. No reference to anti-semitism as a societal problem, only reference to it as a Labour problem. It’s the same with yourself.

You don’t see anti-semitism as a societal problem, as you’ve proved since Trump’s election. You only see it as an opportunity to try and vilify Corbyn and Labour.

The Tories made no reference to anti-semitism whatsoever in their party code of conduct until one week ago, after Channel 4 had embarrassed them by revealing such.

Under Corbyn, Labour have dramatically ramped up intolerance of anti-semitism.

So it’s actually Labour who are taking anti-semitism more seriously than the Tories.

Which party has the problem again?

If you think there isn’t a serious problem with racism and anti-semitism among Trump’s support, you’re off the fucking wall, mate.

They take their lead from their leader.

And sure who knows, maybe you have been living under a rock for the last three years.

I’m not talking about supporters here am I?

We are talking about members of the party.

I think you need to reread your sentences there and take some heed.

It’s a societal problem when it’s the Labour Party called out.
It’s a Trump problem, and “Millions of his voters”, when it is the other way around.

I am still waiting on your evidence on that.

Your laughable Twitter “evidence” that you either didn’t read or couldn’t understand certainly wasn’t that.

Neither was a few Swastikas.

You stated millions of Trump voters were antisemite.

You’ve yet to back up that assertion.

Anti-semitism is a societal problem. Which is why those who try to make it an issue about another party when the evidence shows their own party’s support has an even bigger problem, cannot be taken seriously.

It’s really wonderful that you think bigotry in politics should be stamped out.

I presume you’ll be holding the Tories accountable for theirs?

Right ‘tis simple.

A) I don’t think Donald Trump should have been retweeting David Duke or whatever.

B) I also don’t think Jeremy Corbyn should have shared platforms and defended known antisemites.

C) I don’t believe either is an antisemite and I don’t believe millions of Labour or Republican voters are antisemites.

You on the other hand, will launch in with fiery and fury on A. You will look for any evidence, regardless of actual substance, to substantiate that. You will say stuff like Ivanka and Jarred Kushner are irrelevant, but focus in on Alex Jones. On the latter, you will ignore Corbyn sharing a platform with the likes of Singh, a 911 conspiracist too.

You will now go on about antisemitism being a societal problem, but when Trump is associated it is just a Trump problem.

A hypocrite with absolutely no principles as it is football fanoism to you.

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Most of Trumps supporters are racists, pal.

That’s accepted by pretty much everybody at this stage, even themselves.

Millions are indeed anti-semites. A worryingly high proportion of them virulently so.

Unless you don’t believe anti-semitism is a societal problem?

Do you believe anti-semitism is a societal problem or do you not?

Sure based on that YouGov poll I put up, you could even say millions of Labour supporters are anti-semites, though still less than Tory supporters in number.

Jeremy Corbyn has never engaged in anti-semitism.

Donald Trump has, on several occasions - blatant anti-semitism.

Corbyn doesn’t dog whistle to anti-semites.

Trump regularly dog whistles to anti-semites, and calls people at Nazi demonstrations “very fine people”.

It’s that simple.

One has a problem about engaging in anti-semitism.

The other doesn’t.

Can you work out which is which?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/damien-enticott-labour-facebook-post_uk_5b5b0bfee4b0fd5c73ce9c31/

Sidney: this is a societal problem, no need to mention it.

If this was an obscure 4Chan poster who posted a positive Trump meme once, it would be extrapolated to millions being antisemites.

The Sidney games.

Years ago Jeremy Corbyn wrote this about Stephen Sizer;

“Reverend Stephen Sizer seems to have come under attack by certain individuals intent on discrediting the excellent work that Stephen does in highlighting the injustices of the Palestinian Israeli situation, in particular by his very thorough analysis of “Christian Zionism”. Might I suggest that such criticism is part of a wider pattern of demonising those who dare to stand up and speak out against Zionism, a philosophy that precludes the existence of the state of Palestine?

Your own expertise, wisdom and experience will, I am sure, allow you to appreciate just how much distance exists between anti Semitism, anti Zionism, and anti Israeli government actions for that matter. Overzealous critics find it convenient to conflate them all. Active and well informed individuals such as Reverend Stephen Sizer, withstand a considerable amount of inappropriate criticism. Indeed many MPs and Peers are also attacked.”

The above are reasonable words on the surface, you can debate them but I would say sensible.

What is not sensible is doing it as a reaction to Sizer being criticized for posting links saying amongst other things that there were “Zionist finger prints on the 9/11 cover up”.

Sidney will go to the mattresses to moan about Alex Jones and Trump, but the above is fine.

Couldn’t have a bad word agains Corbyn, it’s all the “Tory Press”.

https://youtu.be/k5mmJQ5NXXc

Hezbollah and Hamas are fine. Just fine.

Imagine Trump said similar about terrorist groups?

I know Sidney will come back and try to drag this into the whole Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the justification for some Palestinian actions but forget that for a second. Corbyn actually walked back on these comments years later when questioned, it as the royal “friends” apparently. He didn’t have the backbone to stand over it. Who dog whistles again?

Day after day Sidney spends his life posting about Trump but oh so quiet on this.

Sorry for the misspelling mate, I was on the way to the airport in a rush and have no spellcheck on this device/app for some reason. I’ll have to read the rest of your nonesense in a bit.

Comrade Corbyn’s anti-Semitism was no doubt nurtured on the north bank at Highbury.

Hezbollah and Hamas are resistance/political groups with an obvious legitimate political reason for being. Their existence isn’t much different to the existence of the IRA, either in its 1919-1921 incarnation or in its 1969-1997 incarnation.

You do understand this, yes?

You don’t have to agree with any of their aims or some of the methods they’ve used, but their existence did not come about in a vacuum. It came about because of oppression and invasion. There is a reasonable amount of tacit support for them internationally because of this.

Israel itself is founded on terrorism. Why do you think the Irgun and the Stern Gang existed? Are you aware of the King David Hotel bombing? I needn’t even mention the numerous Israeli atrocities in the decades since then.

Interestingly, Israel itself funded Hamas in its early days to try and divide the Palestinians.

What about Afghanistan’s Mujahedeen, that was trained and armed by the US? Were they terrorists?

And remember now, even Nelson Mandela associated with terrorism.

Donald Trump dog whistles to neo-Nazis. Can you tell me what legitimate reason for existence do neo-Nazi groups have?

The biggest problem with Corbyn is that he’s not really pro EU either. If he was he’d be able to make serious hay

This is my biggest disppointment with him. I don’t fully agree though about him making serious hay if he did take the Lib Dem position, I’m not sure the polls would be too different.

The Liberal Democrats and UKIP are probably the only party who have genuine bona fides as regards Brexit in that the former unambiguously want it stopped while the latter are bona fide nutcases.

Every other actor in UK politics at the moment is to some degree playing with an ulterior motive - different factions of the Tories are playing with different ulterior motives but what unites them all is that they are hopelessly divided and cowardly, Labour because they want the Tories to implode and get power, the SNP because they think Brexit could hasten Scottish independence, the DUP for the reasons Andrew Adonis copped onto last week, Sinn Fein because they want a united Ireland.

Corbyn has said however that he would back a Remain vote if there was a second referendum.

I’m increasingly thinking there’s a possibility of it happening. There are potentially six months worth left of the UK position steadily being made to look much more farcical than it even looks now.

In fairness he has never wavered in his beliefs since he started in politics. He was always anti EU.

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Except for him pretending to be anti Brexit and then not bothering his hole to campaign on it.

Remember he wouldn’t share a stage with David Cameron during the campaign but will with some of the characters he subsequently says that he doesn’t agree with everything they say on.

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I don’t think a second referendum will work because no matter what the deal is the Brexit-headbangers will vote against it as a sellout. It will just be a mess.

Also Corbyn nominally supported remain in the first referendum also, so what difference will that make.