Uk affairs


#3523

There isn’t a case to be made. No one on here has tried to justify what happened in London this week. It’s sad that you feel the need to score your childish political points over the bodies of eighty people.


#3524

I’m not the one scoring points.

I’m the one apportioning the blame where it should rightly be laid.

It’s the people who are trying to squirm away from apportioning that blame and finding any excuse to try and steer debate away from who is to blame who are trying to score points.

“Don’t politicise it”, we were told, remember?

Sure, because this is entirely non-political, it was just an accident nobody could have foreseen.

Or something.


#3525

I don’t know what the full story is yet, nor do you.

I’ve heard several things.

That the Tories and Labour Party sat on various recommendations during their time in charge.

That of the committee in charge of the Tower, the majority were residents and that this group is being pointed to as owning some of the blame.

I’ve also heard about accusations of corporate manslaughter.

But I’m not going to hang anyone’s reputation until we hear the inquiries findings.

What I do know is that across the Western world we have seen a drastic reduction in accidents/disasters like this over the years. In the UK this is owed to a number of things. The Clean Air Act of 1956 (introduced by Tories) saved lots of lives after the smog deaths of 1952 and hundreds of years of air pollution. Various Labour Governments introduced health and safety acts over the years. I could go on.

What I also know is that you are once again proving yourself to be a tunnel visioned hypocrite. That you pick and choose the regulations that you like, when you like, yet have the temerity to slag off others who do the same.


#3526

It was the exact same with the Manchester and London Terror attacks, and you can be guaranteed he would have reacted with derision if someone had blamed Obama in the wake of the Boston attacks a few years ago. He is a parody. At least he seems to have a genuine affection for the UK but his obsession with the US and it’s partisan politics is unsettling.


#3527

We know lots of things.

We know the cladding went up in flames.

We know there was no sprinkler system.

We know there was no working fire alarm.

We know gas pipes were exposed.

We know the Tories don’t give a shit about working class people of the type that lived in Grenfell Tower.

We know the Tories have a history of covering up the truth and lying and trying to weasel out of any sort of blame they know they should take. The London and Manchester attacks are just the two most recent. Hillsborough will never be forgotten by those who lived through it.

Already some of them have been playing the “blame the victims” card and you do so yourself in your post.

We know there has been an announcement of a public inquiry. This is part of the cover up, because it wont give any voice to survivors in the way a public inquest would.

But “oh, we’re granting a public inquiry, aren’t we great”.

Why no inquest, like with Hillsborough?

Or perhaps survivors and victims’ families will have to fight for 23 years to get one, like with Hillsborough?


#3528

You do realise that major failings as regards UK policing were pointed out in the wake of the London and Manchester attacks, and that the Tories have been proven to have lied about cuts to policing, and that Theresa May herself told the Police Federation they were “scaremongering” and “crying wolf” when they warned about the effects of the cuts?

You do realise that the Libya war which the Tories were one of the prime instigators for saw Islamist fighters travelling to Libya and back at the encouragement of the Tory government?

You do realise that there were multiple warnings given to police about the Manchester attacker by people in his own community?

Again, you try to deflect from the issue by talking about something else completely.

That’s because you can’t debate on the actual issues.


#3529

You are the only one scoring points, by using every snippet you can find to bash conservatives on every issue while by and large giving the left a free pass. You are a case study for myopic left wing fanaticism that finds fault in everything to do with capitalism, but conveniently ignores the fact it’s capitalism that has driven all economic growth in history and that in every country where socialism has taken hold, poverty and misery follows (your poster child Chavez and his moron successor Maduro in Venezuela the best example).

The underlying issue and root cause here is gross incompetence, which is an unfortunate feature of politicians and governments at all levels, regardless of ideology. The sad reality is that regardless of how much money is spent by governments, the outcome is largely incompetence. The reason for this is there no accountability in government or in most of the public service at management level. That is the defining difference between private and public sector, in the private sector (again by and large) competent people get promoted to management and generally if they are not doing the job they get removed. In government the opposite is the case, the incompetents are promoted and never held to account or fired.

This is not to bash the hard working lower levels of public service, as they do the best job they can working for incompetents. The classic example is the money spent on the HSE in Ireland is sufficient to have a top quality service, and yet the opposite is true in terms of delivery. In my dealings with the HSE in Ireland, the rank and file such as nurses, admin staff etc. are wonderful. From top to bottom the department of health however has to be populated by utter morons, such is the inefficiency and downright mind numbing stupidity. The same is largely true for most departments in public service across western democracies, but seems particularly acute in the UK and Ireland.

Whoever made the decision and approved the decision (assuming its the case) to use non fire retardant cladding didn’t make it based on political allegiance, they made it based on incompetence. The incremental money involved proves that point. If you were being honest you would call it what it is, incompetence. Instead you want to fight the tired old class war, it’s the fault of the rich for their hatred of the poor. More government is always the solution for the socialist, even though the existing government is a bloated shambles at all levels.


#3530

The issue, as anybody with an IQ of over 70 can see, is the gross incompetence and absolute uselessness of the no regulation, ultra pro-business culture, which you have been constantly cheerleading for on this forum for years.

Business demands to get rid of as many regulations as possible so it get away away with doing things it shouldn’t. It puts fig leaf “regulations” in place in a pathetic attempt to make it look it is socially responsible. And people like you buy it. Business cuts corners to make more profit. That’s what it’s designed to do. That’s what it has always done. And when that ideology captures government and is applied to housing, people die.

That’s alright with you. Nothing can be let get in the way of the cult of the no regulation culture and its insane ideology.

It’s no wonder you’re even more angry than usual in that rant you posted there, and it’s no wonder you threw in even more red herring nonsense than you usually do. And you talk about political point scoring while ranting about Venezuela, with not even a hint of irony.

Your whole political ideology has just been brutally shown up as the utter sham and disgrace it is, just as it was in Berkeley.


#3531

If it wasn’t for capitalism and the pro business culture in western democracies, humans would still be living in mud huts with life spans of about 40 years.


#3532

Capitalism caused the famine in this country, mate. That’s why your ancestors had to emigrate to Nebraska in coffin ships.

And your political ideology caused the deaths of many, many people in Grenfell Tower.

You’re a rabid fanatic and you prove it every time you post.

It’s lucky for this forum that there is somebody like myself here to put forward reasoned, fact-based political viewpoints to counter the loons.


#3533


#3534

Has Sadiq Khan, the Labour mayor of London, resigned yet?


#3535

I was born and grew up in Ireland moron. The famine was caused by feudalism and had nothing to do with modern capitalism. The system of government imposed in Ireland by Britain was feudalism, plain and simple. Ireland didn’t become a capitalist country until the 1960s, after the utter moron Dev left the stage. We can add economic history to the long list of topics you are blissfully ignorant of.

Your political ideology has resulted in the deaths of many millions of people across the globe, if we are keeping score, but once again you are only interested in point scoring.

Ideology didn’t cause the Grenfell tower tragedy, incompetence did. When it comes to regulations, building code etc., you haven’t a notion, and how would you, having not worked a productive day in your life.


#3536

It was more than feudalism Imo pal. A hidden genocide in the name of God (and the Brits who were afraid of our population size)


#3537

They tried to wipe us out pal.


#3538

Indeed


#3539

Sadiq Khan should resign if he has any dignity, the fucking place is falling apart on his watch


#3540

The basic economic system was feudalism, which had been abandoned in much of Europe by the 16th century, but remained in Ireland as it was largely an agricultural society. Agreed the Brits didn’t give a shit how many Irish died.


#3541


#3542

Reported