Venezuela on the verge of collapse


#742

Statoil were founded after Norway found their oil but there is a role for both depending.

In Ireland’s case, absolutely. Ireland does not have the expertise or scale to set up such an endeavor. Taxation is a far easier way for us.

What Venezuela did was invite the foreign companies in to make their oil usable (spending a tonne in the process), then when it started to be and the money was coming in, backed out of their agreement. A lot of the companies just bent over and took it- they had little choice. But two didn’t and went to the World Bank who ruled in their favour.

My issue with that is that those companies all have huge investments from pension funds all over the world. People on the outside who cannot do joined up thinking just cheered as Chávez took the money for social programmes in his country and his own pockets away from oil companies.


#743

Serious debater. I’d say you were a delight in interviews as well.


#744

If you look at how Alaska turned out I don’t think taxation is a terrible option. It’s low risk. What geo-political influence does Ireland really want, except over the Brits?


#745

I agree.

If Ireland had been there 60 years ago maybe we would have but pointless now.

If Ireland had created a Statoil like company though, I imagine the conversation points from some of the Shell to Sea crew (the ones focused on resource nationalists ones now, not the environmentalists) would be about the damage we’ve done to the world in exploration.


#746

I’m good at interviews and very good at coaching people for interviews.


#747

China only started to do well after they abandoned Maoism in the late 70s and adopted some of the features of free markets. The Mao era was an absolute disaster for China.

You would have to wonder where Russia would be today if it hadn’t had it’s Communist experiment.

Both country’s economies were destroyed by Communism and only recovered when they adopted at least some aspects of free markets.


#748

Both countries were ruled by despots who killed millions of people, but head the ball reckons communism is the reason for their economic setbacks.

You couldn’t make it up.


#749

China
USSR
North Korea
GDR
Poland
Romania
Hungary

…etc

All just communism done wrong.:rofl:


#750

If you don’t think adopting communism as their economic model led to the eventual economic collapse of the USSR and the economic destruction of China during the Mao and post Mao years up to the 1980s, then you are an even bigger idiot than I imagined.


#751

Yeah the Great Leap Forward and Stanlin’s five year plans weren’t actually about communism and were purely just despots being despots.

What the Blue Rinse lads believe is gas.


#752

Name one country in the World, that is actually completely capitalist


#753

What’s this shite line of debate now from you?

This gonna be like you telling us all how China were “finally” about to overtake the USA as the global power because the US slapped some tarrifs on them?


#754

Just name one country that is actually capitalist mate.


#755

There are none today, 19th century US would be the closest we have had.
Singapore, Switzerland and New Zealand would be the closest, all doing extremely well economically.


#756

I think you are guilty of looking at too short a time frame there. China has only been out from under the feudal yoke for 70 odd years. It’s been constantly evolving since. The Mao years were harsh but in the historical scheme of things resulted in a swift break down of the old order and the laying of a foundation for a new order.

Harsh if you were the victim of it but in the long term part of a process that will be massively to the benefit of China, which was a weak, famine ridden feudal society before the Communists took over and had been ravaged by invaders for the previous century.


#757

What is the point you are making?

Wtf would we have left and right and arguments over social welfare, tax and anything else if there were 100% capitalist societies?

What a dullard argument.

What is true though is that the countries that have espoused communism have led to mass murder, starvation and collapse. The likes of China pivoting away to the free market in time. All failures, time and time again. Nobody claims that the US or western style government is perfect, but my Christ it is a damned lot better than the rest.

In Venezuela’s case, for years we all had to hear how great they were because of X and Y. People ignored what was actually happening with their governance. But now once again, when the whole thing fails, they blame it on everything but the ideology.


#758

Don’t forget that the US was guilty of mass murder too.


#759

I you don’t think that killing millions and millions of people led to the subsequent economic collapse of the USSR and China then you are even a bigger idiot than I imagined.


#760

My goodness, read a book. Even Fagan admits that many of the policies that killed millions were in the name of Communism to advance society.

Do you honestly think Mao just woke up and decided to starve his citizens as he was an evil bastard? What a simple view of the world you have.


#761

And that it had a massive economic collapse (well 2 actually) and had to resort to State socialism to extricate itself.