1916 was a gamechanger
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It had to start somewhere…though all politicians are hungry cunts when it comes down to it and eventually the ordinary people are down on their agendas. Politics is power
Up the ra!
For what today
Oh, sorry … grand - carry on so attaining power for your own ends lads…
There was a real chance to turn the new state into something worth while - a break from the old - introduce a new political order and a state that catered for its citizens - The cunts that took over from 1922 on were only interested in replicating their British masters and didn’t give two shits about the ordinary person, paticularly urban citizens -they were let rot. The cunting bastards in Cumann na nGaedheal robbed the poor widows of their pension, the cunts… What we got was family dynasties instead - Clongowes boys and the likes- the Galway races tent - and anyone on the outside can go die in their hut.
There was no revolution in Ireland - there was revolutionaries yes -but revolution me bollox - The poor were still poor but now had the added tax/master of the Church ruling their lives while the shopocracy and large farmers built up their fortunes.
Interesting. Yes there was a chance that’s what the rebellion created so it matter v much it took place. The problem of coarse is politics usually takes one road only eventually
46.9% voted for Sinn Fein in 1918. Not a majority. The IPP did not fully collapse. Over 21% voted for them, they got 6 seats. 25% went for the the Unionists and they got 22 seats. First past the post killed the IPP.
Whilst Fagan et al will be along to tell us that if some of the unopposed constituencies were ran it would have pushed the SF vote to over 50%, it is also true that in many areas Unionist candidates did not run as they knew they had little hope of winning. Additionally Sinn Fein also convinced Labour not to run. This was a disastrous long term decision by the Labour Party in Ireland. Whilst Labour at the time were nationalists, that wasn’t their core belief. It was about workers not just a flag, it was just that nationalism was the quickest way for them away from imperialism and capitalism. The growth of the Labour Party in Britain would have had some impact here, we were no where near as industrialised of course but there was a vote there. How an Irish Labour would have dealt with Ramsey MacDonald’s becoming Prime Minister in 1922? Anyway…
A big factor overlooked here aside from the fallout of the conscription threat, the war dead and some martyrdom for Republicans was the female vote (some wives of the war dead) and the general growth in the electorate (two thirds who voted in 1918 had never voted before, the electorate had grown from 700k to 2000k in 8 years). Those over 21 could vote if they were men. Unlike today’s generation who don’t value the vote they most certainly did and were more likely to go radical than some of the older heads in the IPP.
The 1918 election was a disaster in my opinion. It allowed the radical element to get in and allowed the already radicalised Unionised to exit stage left from having to deal with those pesky Catholics. We were then seen to have fired the first bullets in 1919 and further didn’t recognise the UK Parliament, we left the Unionists to play politics in London to an increasingly receptive audience and we got the Government of Ireland Act soon after. Even if the IPP had maintained their vote though, the victory for the Coalition with Andrew Bonar Law’s Conservatives having such a major say in that Government would have been bad news for Home Rule. I’d always favour Parliamentary action myself though. I agree with Bruton that John Redmond and the IPP achieved an enourmous amount for Ireland in the 30 years before 1916. I think the 1918 election sealed partition and brought unnecessary bloodshed to Ireland.
Others disagree but for the most part they just like to scream about revisionism and a person being a West Brit rather than debate.
That’s a fairly balanced post… I suppose you have to look at the issues that drove people to bloodshed also and in many cases they were not politically or nationally motivated… Conditions for the lower orders were as bad as anywhere on the planet, politics was gonna do fuck all for these people so many of them, particularly tenants and labourers, seized the initiative… Anyway, whether through parliament or the way it ended up falling, we still would have been rode rotten by a corrupt political elite. The Brits would have kept the Church from molesting half the country tho.
How many of the 1916 leaders would be described as working class or not from the upper middle class? Connolly and Clarke?
none
Clarke may have started working class but he certainly worked his way up…by the rising he had Married into the Daly family of Limerick (his wife was Kathleen Daly)… Who were a middle class family in Limerick - her uncle John Daly was Mayor of Limerick twice and was heavily involved in organising the rising…he had served in prison with Tom for Fenian activities and was rendered in a hapless physical state due to poisoning in prison, I think. Anyway, Kathleen had her own business in Limerick before heading off to the states to be with Tom and they opened a business in Dublin on their return… It was his affiliation with the IRB that allowed him travel and work in the states and return to open a business… The IRB had spent years building up their organisation, with some of the greatest men Ireland ever produced and it (and their legacy) was blown away by the IRA cunts that followed… Tho Collins and gang had all been IRB.
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Never knew he married into them
The IRB saw their opportunity with the IRA though? Infiltrated them and tried to guide them from the inside rather than oppose them?
Was the guiding principle of the IRB not also Irish Independence? What makes you think they looked for a more socialist based society?
More land and the 3 Fs
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I’m a revisionist, and a Marxist…
ARE YOU TO:astonished:
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The IRB became cumann na ngaedhael. Fine Gael brought together a mixum gatherum of c na g, IRB, blueshirts, big farmers, middling farmers, national party (army) and lawyers.
Don’t you dare sully my beloved IRB.
Trace the leadership names forward…
Ah yeah… The ideals of the IRB died with the leaders of 16 really…what followed was a load of pen pushing, dynasty building corrupt politicians… i.e Fine Gael and later Fianna Fail.