[QUOTE=“Nembo Kid, post: 1142000, member: 2514”]You spend too much time dwelling over things done half a decade ago Manuel, this is the present and in the recent past (which actually bears relevance) Armagh have been competing at the top of the table. 1 All Ireland triumph, 2 final appearances, four semi-final apperances, 8 qf appearances, 6 Provincial Championships.
But thanks for reinforcing my point. Roscommon haven’t won a big Championship game in the past 8 seasons.[/QUOTE]
The present for Armagh is, they were playing Division 3 football this year and haven’t even got to a provincial final for 7 years. A humbling exit to Wexford in the 2008 All Ireland Championship marked the end of the road for a fine Armagh team, I understand you to be referring to. Armagh have been utterly sh*t since then. They’ve won just two games in the Ulster Championship over Down in 2011 and Cavan last year since that defeat to Wexford in 2008. They’ve got as far as the ‘Last 12’ you keep referring to, on one occasion last year, when they advanced to the dizzying heights of the quarter final. Aside from that its been a procession of defeats for Armagh at Round 1, 2 & 3 of the qualifiers, year in year out. Armagh even went out to Roscommon in 2012 and Galway in 2013 - from that Connacht Championship you sneak so sneeringly of. So there’s your big scalp within the last 8 years for Roscommon - beating the mighty Armagh in 2012.
Armagh’s 1 All Ireland triumph in 2002 is ancient history in football terms. The last member of that team retired years ago. Armagh in 2002 is as relevant in modern footballing terms as Tipperary’s last All Ireland football win in 1920.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1142003, member: 273”]Your misunderstanding of talent is, fulfilling it, development, management of players, the fact that it’s amateur etc etc is still bemeausing.
You can read a game reasonably well when you actually watch it and there isn’t an ulster county involved, but other than that you are clueless to te reality of things.[/QUOTE]
Listen, everyone has been talking about Roscommon for ages now, it’s been the same predictions for years about the breakthrough they’re going to make but it hasn’t materialised. Look at their championship record in that time - I’ve put it up there, it’s extraordinarily poor. It’s 8 years on now since they won their first minor title and in the Championship they have performed extremely poorly, would you not agree?
Like who? I’ve barely heard much talk about them aside from winning a few underage games. Was that bird who tossed you aside on Viber from Roscommon or something because you a bigger complex than normal about them.
You’ve also been touting Armagh as one of the big guns and a ‘big scalp’ for everyone when their championship record over the last 8 year period you are referring to is broadly speaking comparable to Roscommon’s over that period. Armagh also have their All Ireland winning minor team of 2009 and indeed an U21 All Ireland winning team from 2004.
You are incorrect in your assertion that Roscommon’s All Ireland minor win in 2006 was their first. It was their fourth. You’d really need to smarten up on your grasp of basic facts if you’re to last around here.
Exactly. Fuck all are talking about Roscommon. They are spoken about in similar terms to Tipperary, neither relatively big footballing sides, great underage for the past few years, now can they translate it to senior and push on?
There has been zero talk of Roscommon. None. Zilch. Nada. Fuck all.
The football championship this decade, well certainly since 2011 has been dominated by Kerry, Dublin, Donegal & Mayo. Over the last 4 seasons, there’s been a gulf in class between those 4 and the rest of the field. Armagh, Tyrone, Galway, Roscommon, Monaghan, Wexford, Meath, Tipperary or whoever else you care to mention have been nowhere.
That’s a reasonably competitive state of affairs in footballing terms. What you had in the 2000’s and just about every other decade bar the 50’s and 90’s was Kerry largely dominating on their own.
[QUOTE=“Nembo Kid, post: 1141982, member: 2514”]In relative terms, Armagh, Down and Derry operate on similar playing field to Roscommon.
Armagh is a county of about 170k but the you can discount the vast proportion of the Lurgan/Craigavon/Portadown which makes up more than a third of the county’s population where it is heavily populated with prods. You also have to contend with association football being the main sporting outlet here among the nationalist community.
Of the current Armagh panel you only really have Campbell, Findon, Murnin and Moriarty from this area, despite it encompassing over a third of the county’s population. GAA is mainly corderned off to South and mid Armagh which would still hold a sizeable protestant population who don’t partake. Overall Armagh operate at a similar level in playing numbers to Monaghan and Cavan.
Derry are probably worse off than Armagh. Derry City although a majority nationalist city is an association football City and I think it’s well in excess of 30 years since a player from a city club last played for the county team. North Derry is predominantly Protestant as well which further again reduces the playing numbers.
Down is a hun hell hole which probably holds about a 30% nationalist population and again GAA football is heavily concentrated to the South and South East of the county, the hurling mainly seems to be popular in the nationalists pockets further north in the county.
GAA is a real non-entity in Antrim as well with association football being the main export in the city and the county football team relies very much on the Belfast clubs. Hurling would be popular in Antrim in the pockets of nationalist areas outside Belfast.
Tyrone are the only county in the O6 who have a decent base to go from. The population of the county is around 170-180k with the nationalist population coming in at circa 100k I would suspect. They don’t have the issues of Armagh and Derry who despite being predominantly nationalist counties also have to deal with urbanisation and the fact association football is extremely popular in these areas, so much so in Derry City that GAA is non-existant. Tyrone is quite a rural county with GAA still being very popular in the more urban settlements like Omagh, Dungannon and Cookstown. Even at that Tyrone would still lag well behind counties likes Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Galway, Meath, Kildare, Dublin and Donegal in playing numbers.
The real statistics that should be looked at would be the registered playing numbers per county and no. of club teams per county. Fermanagh would be the most depleted team in the country based on playing resources but have still managed to make an All Ireland semi final in the past 11 seasons .
For all the bluster from the media about Roscommon in the last 10 years or so, have they even managed a big scalp. They beat Armagh in 2012 but that was a sorry Armagh outfit who were very poor from the 2009-2013 period where the team was going through a transition and had some extremely embarrassing results. Have they managed a championship win over anyone else of note in that period? Tyrone dumped out of the championship numerous times over the past few years, Armagh comfortably disposed of them last year, when was the last time they even managed a win over the traditional big two in Connacht?[/QUOTE]
Yawn
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1142026, member: 377”]The football championship this decade, well certainly since 2011 has been dominated by Kerry, Dublin, Donegal & Mayo. Over the last 4 seasons, there’s been a gulf in class between those 4 and the rest of the field. Armagh, Tyrone, Galway, Roscommon, Monaghan, Wexford, Meath, Tipperary or whoever else you care to mention have been nowhere.
That’s a reasonably competitive state of affairs in footballing terms. What you had in the 2000’s and just about every other decade bar the 50’s and 90’s was Kerry largely dominating on their own.[/QUOTE]
Strange how you deem Mayo on 0 All-Irelands this decade to be one of the current “dominant” teams in the championship, yet Tyrone with 3 All-Irelands don’t merit the same status for the 00s.
I’d also draw the comparison between Mayo’s lost All-Ireland finals in 2012 and 2013 and four facile provincial titles to Armagh’s winning All-Ireland final in 2002, losing All-Ireland final in 2003, six hard-won provincial titles and a National League title in the 1999-2006 period and inquire how the former constitutes being a dominant team while the latter doesn’t…
There has plenty of talk about Roscommon.
They were big favourites for the game with Armagh last year which I found completely absurd and wholly ignorant. They haven’t really beaten a top team at senior championship level in 8 years.
[QUOTE=“Nembo Kid, post: 1142038, member: 2514”]There has plenty of talk about Roscommon.
They were big favourites for the game with Armagh last year which I found completely absurd and wholly ignorant. They haven’t really beaten a top team at senior championship level in 8 years.[/QUOTE]
So there was talk about them for one game, which annoyed you because it was a Nordie team and now you are beset on sticking it to Roscommon - none of which is their fault. You’re a bitter man, pal.
Not one game.
[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1142036, member: 183”]Strange how you deem Mayo on 0 All-Irelands this decade to be one of the current “dominant” teams in the championship, yet Tyrone with 3 All-Irelands don’t merit the same status for the 00s.
I’d also draw the comparison between Mayo’s lost All-Ireland finals in 2012 and 2013 and four facile provincial titles to Armagh’s winning All-Ireland final in 2002, losing All-Ireland final in 2003, six hard-won provincial titles and a National League title in the 1999-2006 period and inquire how the former constitutes being a dominant team while the latter doesn’t…[/QUOTE]
What I said was the football championship over the last 4 seasons has been largely dominated by four counties Kerry, Dublin, Mayo and Donegal. In 3 of those 4 seasons, all four of those counties made up the four semi finalists, the only exception was 2013 when Mayo beat Donegal by 16 points in the quarter final. I was talking in the context of where criticism was levelled at Roscommon for failing to take a ‘big scalp’ of late. You are not keeping up with the debate.
The reality is no county outside of these 4 has landed a big scalp in the past 4 seasons in a knockout game as Kerry, Dublin, Mayo and Donegal have not been eliminated from the championship by anybody outside of that particular quartet. At provincial level, Mayo have recorded their first 4 in a row since 1948-51. Dublin have done a 4 in a row in Leinster. Donegal have appeared in the last 4 Ulster finals, winning 3 of them including their first ever back to back titles. Mayo as you’ve said have not won a title in those 4 years, but they’ve been one of the top sides - dethroning the All Ireland champions in 2011, 2012 & 2013 and in 2014 bringing the eventual All Ireland champions to extra time in a replayed semi final.
As regards the last decade, it was largely dominated by Kerry. They won 5 All Ireland’s and appeared in 8 finals. Only Dublin in the 1890’s (with 6 in that decade) have amassed more titles in a single decade. I’m open to correction on this, but I believe Kerry in the 2000’s were the first county stretching all the way back since the inception of the championship to appear in 8 All Ireland finals in the same decade. Along with Wexford 1913-18 and Dublin 1974-79, Kerry 2004-09 are the only county to have appeared in 6 All Ireland football finals in succession.
What’s the feeling for today’s match? Tyrone’s best performances in the league were against Dublin, Kerry and Mayo, so they are able to raise it against top opposition. But they bombed against Donegal. However conventional wisdom says that Donegal find it more difficult against the kind of ultra-defensive style Tyrone will employ today. I’m expecting some traditional, typically dour Ulster championship fare in traditional Ulster championship rain and wind, with a traditional off-tune, moderately attractive young woman who learned her singing in a church choir, singing Amhran na bhFiann over a traditionally crap public address system. Prediction: Donegal 0-11 Tyrone 0-9.
Donegal
Paul Durcan;
Paddy McGrath, Neil McGee, Eamon McGee;
Ryan McHugh, Karl Lacey, Frank McGlynn;
Neil Gallagher, Martin McElhinney;
Martin O’Reilly, Odhran MacNiallais, Christy Toye;
Patrick McBrearty, Michael Murphy, Hugh McFadden.
Subs., Michael Boyle, Eamonn Doherty, Anthony Thompson, Colm McFadden, Mark McHugh, David Walsh, Daniel McLaughlin, Ciaran McGinley, Gary McFadden, Eoin McHugh, Stephen Griffin
Tyrone
1 – Michael O’Neill – Cluain Eo – Appearances 7 (1)
2 – Aidan McCrory – Aireagal Chiaráin – Appearances 62 (11)
3 – Ronan McNamee – Achadh Uí Aráin – Appearances 37 (5)
4 – Cathal McCarron – An Droim Mór – Appearances 64 (14)
5 – Ronan McNabb – An Droim Mór – Appearances 38 (8 )
6 – Justin McMahon – An Omaigh – Appearances 84 (30)
7 – Peter Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin – Appearances 83 (25)
8 – Colm Cavanagh – An Mhaigh – Appearances 101 (36)
9 – Padraig McNulty – Dún Geanainn – Appearances 12 (0)
10 – Tiernan McCann – Coill an Chlochair – Appearances 23 (1)
11 – Matthew Donnelly – Trí Leac – Appearances 58 (16)
12 – Barry Tierney – An Omaigh – Appearances 19 (2)
13 – Darren McCurry – Éadan na dTorc – Appearances 39 (13)
14 – Sean Cavanagh © – An Mhaigh – Appearances 202 (72)
15 – Connor McAliskey – Cluain Eo – Appearances 36 (9)
16 – Niall Morgan – Éadan na dTorc – Appearances 37 (6)
17 – Rory Brennan – Trí Leac – Appearances 3 (0)
18 – Mark Bradley – Coill an Chlochair – Appearances 1 (0)
19 – Conor Clarke – An Omaigh – Appearances 37 (12)
20 – Peter Hughes – Eiscreach – Appearances 17 (0)
21 – Danny McBride – An Srath Bán – Appearances 18 (3)
22 – Conall McCann – Coill an Chochair – Appearances 9 (0)
23 – Ryan McKenna – Eaglais – Appearances 31 (7)
24 – Joe McMahon – An Omaigh – Appearances 117 (56)
25 – Cathal McShane – E R Uí Néill – Appearances 6 (0)
26 – Ronan O Neill – An Omaigh – Appearances 32 (6)
Don’t think anybody would argue otherwise.
It’s just stupid to then use the same logic to include Mayo as a dominant team for the current era and leave out Tyrone and Armagh as dominant teams of the 2003-2010 era in Tyrone’s case and 1999-2006 in Armagh’s case.
[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1142054, member: 183”]Don’t think anybody would argue otherwise.
It’s just stupid to then use the same logic to include Mayo as a dominant team for the current era and leave out Tyrone and Armagh as dominant teams of the 2003-2010 era in Tyrone’s case and 1999-2006 in Armagh’s case.[/QUOTE]
What I said was Mayo were one of four counties who have dominated the business end of the All Ireland championship over the past 4 seasons. They’ve certainly been the dominant team in Connacht over that 4 years winning an unprecedented 4 in a row.
Kerry were the dominant team of the 2000’s. That’s indisputable. Tyrone next best after that. Tyrone were largely a 1 year on, 2 year off side though. They lacked the consistency of Kerry. They had some horrible championship exits in between their All Ireland wins - Derry 2001, Sligo 2002, Mayo 2004, Laois 2006, Meath 2007, Cork 2009.
The extent to which Ulster titles were hard won during the 2000’s is completely overblown. Tyrone and Armagh won all 12 between 1999-2010. Traditional modern day powers like Down & Derry were nowhere (still not having won an Ulster title since 1994 & 1998 respectively).
while i do believe that either dublin or kerry will walk this piss poor borefest of a competition i have decided ( even tho their FB line is very poor) o put 100 euros EW on Donegal to win this thing.
logic would be, cork fluke it and beat kerry, then Dublin get drawn v kerry in QF and beat them, Donegal havent a hope of beating kerry, ever, but they have a hex on dublin, so they need the dubs ( only team who can beat kerry in a serious match out)… then say AISF, donegal v dublin, o gara and macauley get the line early, donegal win 6 points to 5 in the worst game in living memory, they then go an beat Galway 1-12 to 0-9 in the final
after the game yer man Gallagher joins Widnes RLFC as a defensive coach
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1142058, member: 377”]What I said was Mayo were one of four counties who have dominated the business end of the All Ireland championship over the past 4 seasons. They’ve certainly been the dominant team in Connacht over that 4 years winning an unprecedented 4 in a row.
Kerry were the dominant team of the 2000’s. That’s indisputable. Tyrone next best after that. Tyrone were largely a 1 year on, 2 year off side though. They lacked the consistency of Kerry. They had some horrible championship exits in between their All Ireland wins - Derry 2001, Sligo 2002, Mayo 2004, Laois 2006, Meath 2007, Cork 2009.
The extent to which Ulster titles were hard won during the 2000’s is completely overblown. Tyrone and Armagh won all 12 between 1999-2011. Traditional modern day powers like Down & Derry were nowhere (still not having won an Ulster title since 1994 & 1998 respectively).[/QUOTE]
Derry were certainly not nowhere. They reached All-Ireland semi-finals in 2001 (where they had a superb Galway team badly rattled half-way through the second half) and 2004 and won two National League titles in the decade. Donegal and Fermanagh reached All-Ireland semi-finals and only narrowly lost. Ulster was by far the strongest province in terms of depth.
Armagh’s Ulster titles were all hard won.
In 1999 they had to go to a replay with Donegal and beat Derry by a point.
In 2000 the beat Tyrone narrowly and the Fermanagh and Derry by a point.
In 2002 they only got by League champions Tyrone after two brilliant matches.
In 2004 they were run to two points by 14 man Cavan before losing to Fermanagh which showed the strength in depth in he province.
In 2005 Donegal took them to a replay and then Tyrone did similar in the final.
In 2006 they had another hard-fought win over Donegal.
Tyrone were taken to two replays by Derry and Down in 2003.
We’ve been over this debate before. 
[QUOTE=“mickee321, post: 1142062, member: 367”]while i do believe that either dublin or kerry will walk this piss poor borefest of a competition i have decided ( even tho their FB line is very poor) o put 100 euros EW on Donegal to win this thing.
logic would be, cork fluke it and beat kerry, then Dublin get drawn v kerry in QF and beat them, Donegal havent a hope of beating kerry, ever, but they have a hex on dublin, so they need the dubs ( only team who can beat kerry in a serious match out)… then say AISF, donegal v dublin, o gara and macauley get the line early, donegal win 6 points to 5 in the worst game in living memory, they then go an beat Galway 1-12 to 0-9 in the final
after the game yer man Gallagher joins Widnes RLFC as a defensive coach[/QUOTE]
Donegal would have a good chance against Kerry in a semi-final, their biggest problem will be getting there as they’ll have to win five very tough matches (Tyrone, Armagh, Derry/Down, Monaghan, quarter-final) to do so. That’s a real cunt of a route.