You’re right. But to be fair to cork, a lot of what they do now is based around getting them into an elite athletes frame of mind and not so much playing a certain way. They have moved from “style” to “Fundemental” training. Basically working on basics as well as they can.
I’ll take the silence as a sign you haven’t a shred of evidence to support your claims.
Yeah I noticed that.
Development squads are the choice - you make it very elite very young alright and the club is an adjunct to that. It’s key to intercounty success though as you can start to consistently control what they are doing but yeah you will lose players but at this stage it seems inter county success is all that matters
Surprisingly, the British government didn’t contribute a penny towards our centre of “excellence” at Cloghan.
No, this was achieved through very a clever infiltration of the top jobs at HQ between the years of '00 to '08. From here we greased the right pockets, told a few yarns and the money flowed in.
Plentiful fertile land with good road frontage is also essential to any centre of excellence.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1156303, member: 2272”]http://www.raheny.gaa.ie/coaching/coaching-drills - example of what a club can simply do
it’s about getting organised, proper under age coaching and structures, keeping kids interested and then at 14 up taking the best into development squads so its a five or ten year plan really which takes time, effort, continuity, money to do properly and not look for a short term fix with an external manager
Dublin did this and sheer numbers mean they can create a panel of massive strength in depth and because of the cache of Dublin can keep most of the footballers on the panel and don’t tend to lose many to other sports[/QUOTE]
thats true and the obvious answer but very many clubs are doing this now, producing policies i mean compiled by one person or maybe 2 and in reality its only window dressing and bears no resemblance to what actually happens on the ground.
its interesting that Raheny gaa have simply a whole heap of links to Trim Gaa produced documents and fobbed them off as part of their policy.
Remy Farrell would have said there was not a screed of evidence.
[QUOTE=“Chucks Nwoko, post: 1156635, member: 2812”]
Plentiful fertile land with good road frontage is also essential to any centre of excellence.[/QUOTE]
really ??..when you considered you’ll generally be sticking a hall on top of it along with an all weather and a prunty pitch I don’t think plentiful fertile land is essential…
Darragh O’Se on Mayo
For the first time in a long time, I think Mayo really need to win the Connacht championship. In each of the last few years, they arrived at this weekend knowing that Connacht was something that had to be got out of the way. Above and beyond all, they’d have been wishing that they could fast-forward to August. When you know you are contenders for the All-Ireland, you just want to get on with it.
Mayo have been the most consistent team in the country over the past four years. For each of the last three, they started the Connacht championship knowing that they were going to win it. They could make all the right noises and say all the right things, but when you’re in a team that is ahead of everyone else in your province, you know what the score is.
You know that if you go out and do your job, you will win 90 per cent of the games. You know that you’re playing against teams that will lose hope if you do a number on them early on. You know that if things are tight coming near the end, you will know how to close it out. You will have confidence and experience on your side, while the opposition will be worrying about losing.
Mayo haven’t lost a game in Connacht for five years. You can’t underestimate the size of that achievement under [James Horan](‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=James Horan&article=true’). He changed them from a team that was used to relying on a small handful of standout players to one that spread the workload. He made them very physical, got them really strong, improved their tackling and developed a great mentality. He left them in great shape.
But where are they now? “We don’t know” is the honest answer. They’re going into Salthill on Sunday where two years ago they gave Galway a hosing. They beat Galway by 17 points that day and by seven points last year. Yet the handicap for Sunday stands at just two, even with Galway missing their best forward now in [Shane Walsh](‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Shane Walsh&article=true’).
Somehow, Mayo’s stock has fallen over during the winter. People don’t know what to make of the new management team so they assume Mayo have gone backwards. If Horan was still in charge and they were after having the sort of so-so league they did, nobody would have batted an eyelid. But because [Pat Holmes[/URL] and [URL=‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Noel Connelly&article=true’]Noel Connelly](‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Pat Holmes&article=true’) have nothing to hang their hat on yet, the vibes aren’t great around Mayo.
Horan’s Mayo had a body of work to fall back on. So for example, when they only just got past Roscommon last year, they had credit in the bank. It was seen as a good win to dig out, a good test to come through. Not their true form but enough to be getting on with. The man who has a reputation for being an early riser can lie in bed all day.
But the form so far under Holmes and Connelly hasn’t caught the eye in any way. There’s been no big statement. Their biggest win in the league was against Monaghan and they finished outside the top four for the first time in four years. There’s no rash of new players, no young buck coming through to get people excited. You need to give your supporters something.
That’s why I expected them to be better in the league. Everybody uses the league for their own ends, and I presumed it would suit Mayo to get to the knockout stages again and to compete for the title. Set the tone for the year, win a game or two in Croke Park. Something for the new regime to make a name for itself with. But instead it petered out with two defeats and a draw. That won’t get anybody’s dander up.
Even though Kerry are playing this weekend, Mayo v Galway is the game I’ll be most interested in. I’m mad to get a look at them: how will they set up? Will they continue as they were: strong through the middle, pressing high up on kickouts, that kind of thing? Or will it be something different?
I don’t envy Holmes and Connelly the job they had going in there. It’s one thing to take over a team that’s going nowhere or one that’s in disarray. But these lads were going into a dressing room that was very tight-knit, that had been to war together year after year and that loved its leader. These guys have played in All-Ireland finals, they have an idea in their heads of what it takes to get there. You don’t get those guys on board straight away.
As a player, I never liked change. You want continuity. You want consistency. You don’t want to have to be forming new relationships the whole time. You want a guy who you know and one who knows you.
But I also knew that a new man at the top was vital from time to time. I might not have liked it but when there’s a new sheriff in town, you have to put a bit of work getting on the right side of the law. You have to have your wits about you. Like it or not, you have to prove yourself all over again.
If someone new comes in, you want them to improve the thing. You want them to kick on. I wouldn’t be the biggest hurling expert in the world, but I saw the Dublin team that got hockeyed on the weekend by Galway and a lot of the names were familiar going back five or six years. [Ger Cunningham](‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Ger Cunningham&article=true’) is obviously a highly qualified coach but there just didn’t seem to be a lot of freshness there.
The lads in Mayo can say, of course, that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. But I still think there needs to be some sort of rattle from them. I expected more change. I expected them to be a bit more radical. The league is only a guide, I accept that. But they looked a bit stale to me.
And staleness would be the worst thing possible for Mayo now. The elephant in the room is that these players don’t have their All-Ireland. It’s far easier to keep dragging year after year of enthusiasm and effort out of players when they have the medal stashed away. The one thing you need above all when you don’t have the medal is the hunger to keep going after it. Stale just won’t cut it at this stage.
That’s why a Connacht title is important for them this year. They have to put that pressure on themselves and decide that this isn’t just another Connacht title. This isn’t just another notch on the bedpost. Galway are coming. The Rossies are coming. Make it into a big challenge and go bald-headed after it.
Sport is so fickle. It comes and goes in waves. You can change perceptions very quickly. People are in the dark about Mayo just at the minute, they don’t know what to expect from them. In a sense, they have to prove themselves all over again – another side-effect of not having won their All-Ireland. You get a lot more leeway when you’ve done it. And you probably get far too little of it when you haven’t.
But let’s say they beat Galway on Sunday and then win the Connacht final against Roscommon. That’s two good, credible wins against teams that are thought to be on the up. All of a sudden, in the space of a few weeks, the supporters are convinced again and the county is buzzing.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
And no county can buzz like Mayo can buzz. People talk about tradition in the GAA but it’s actually interest that matters. Walk around some counties in the middle of the summer and you wouldn’t guess the championship was happening at all. There’s no chat about it, no flags, no pictures of players on the front of the local papers. But nobody would ever mistake Mayo for one of those counties.
This is why it’s silly to wonder if these Mayo fellas will come back and go again. Of course they will. Football is in them. It’s who they are, for better or worse, for richer or poorer. There’s no way that Mayo will be gone for long, if they’re gone at all.
We’ll get an idea on Sunday. This is a crucial game in a crucial year for them. They won’t want to waste all the momentum that made them the most consistent team in the country under Horan.
If they lose, it would be hard to see them getting it together to get a challenge going for the rest of the year. They’d still probably make it back for an All-Ireland quarter-final but Sam would surely be beyond them. But if they win, it puts a whole new complexion on things.
[QUOTE=“thedancingbaby, post: 1156698, member: 48”]Darragh O’Se on Mayo
For the first time in a long time, I think Mayo really need to win the Connacht championship. In each of the last few years, they arrived at this weekend knowing that Connacht was something that had to be got out of the way. Above and beyond all, they’d have been wishing that they could fast-forward to August. When you know you are contenders for the All-Ireland, you just want to get on with it.
Mayo have been the most consistent team in the country over the past four years. For each of the last three, they started the Connacht championship knowing that they were going to win it. They could make all the right noises and say all the right things, but when you’re in a team that is ahead of everyone else in your province, you know what the score is.
You know that if you go out and do your job, you will win 90 per cent of the games. You know that you’re playing against teams that will lose hope if you do a number on them early on. You know that if things are tight coming near the end, you will know how to close it out. You will have confidence and experience on your side, while the opposition will be worrying about losing.
Mayo haven’t lost a game in Connacht for five years. You can’t underestimate the size of that achievement under [James Horan](‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=James Horan&article=true’). He changed them from a team that was used to relying on a small handful of standout players to one that spread the workload. He made them very physical, got them really strong, improved their tackling and developed a great mentality. He left them in great shape.
But where are they now? “We don’t know” is the honest answer. They’re going into Salthill on Sunday where two years ago they gave Galway a hosing. They beat Galway by 17 points that day and by seven points last year. Yet the handicap for Sunday stands at just two, even with Galway missing their best forward now in [Shane Walsh](‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Shane Walsh&article=true’).
Somehow, Mayo’s stock has fallen over during the winter. People don’t know what to make of the new management team so they assume Mayo have gone backwards. If Horan was still in charge and they were after having the sort of so-so league they did, nobody would have batted an eyelid. But because [Pat Holmes[/URL] and [URL=‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Noel Connelly&article=true’]Noel Connelly](‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Pat Holmes&article=true’) have nothing to hang their hat on yet, the vibes aren’t great around Mayo.
Horan’s Mayo had a body of work to fall back on. So for example, when they only just got past Roscommon last year, they had credit in the bank. It was seen as a good win to dig out, a good test to come through. Not their true form but enough to be getting on with. The man who has a reputation for being an early riser can lie in bed all day.
But the form so far under Holmes and Connelly hasn’t caught the eye in any way. There’s been no big statement. Their biggest win in the league was against Monaghan and they finished outside the top four for the first time in four years. There’s no rash of new players, no young buck coming through to get people excited. You need to give your supporters something.
That’s why I expected them to be better in the league. Everybody uses the league for their own ends, and I presumed it would suit Mayo to get to the knockout stages again and to compete for the title. Set the tone for the year, win a game or two in Croke Park. Something for the new regime to make a name for itself with. But instead it petered out with two defeats and a draw. That won’t get anybody’s dander up.
Even though Kerry are playing this weekend, Mayo v Galway is the game I’ll be most interested in. I’m mad to get a look at them: how will they set up? Will they continue as they were: strong through the middle, pressing high up on kickouts, that kind of thing? Or will it be something different?
I don’t envy Holmes and Connelly the job they had going in there. It’s one thing to take over a team that’s going nowhere or one that’s in disarray. But these lads were going into a dressing room that was very tight-knit, that had been to war together year after year and that loved its leader. These guys have played in All-Ireland finals, they have an idea in their heads of what it takes to get there. You don’t get those guys on board straight away.
As a player, I never liked change. You want continuity. You want consistency. You don’t want to have to be forming new relationships the whole time. You want a guy who you know and one who knows you.
But I also knew that a new man at the top was vital from time to time. I might not have liked it but when there’s a new sheriff in town, you have to put a bit of work getting on the right side of the law. You have to have your wits about you. Like it or not, you have to prove yourself all over again.
If someone new comes in, you want them to improve the thing. You want them to kick on. I wouldn’t be the biggest hurling expert in the world, but I saw the Dublin team that got hockeyed on the weekend by Galway and a lot of the names were familiar going back five or six years. [Ger Cunningham](‘http://www.thefreekick.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Ger Cunningham&article=true’) is obviously a highly qualified coach but there just didn’t seem to be a lot of freshness there.
The lads in Mayo can say, of course, that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. But I still think there needs to be some sort of rattle from them. I expected more change. I expected them to be a bit more radical. The league is only a guide, I accept that. But they looked a bit stale to me.
And staleness would be the worst thing possible for Mayo now. The elephant in the room is that these players don’t have their All-Ireland. It’s far easier to keep dragging year after year of enthusiasm and effort out of players when they have the medal stashed away. The one thing you need above all when you don’t have the medal is the hunger to keep going after it. Stale just won’t cut it at this stage.
That’s why a Connacht title is important for them this year. They have to put that pressure on themselves and decide that this isn’t just another Connacht title. This isn’t just another notch on the bedpost. Galway are coming. The Rossies are coming. Make it into a big challenge and go bald-headed after it.
Sport is so fickle. It comes and goes in waves. You can change perceptions very quickly. People are in the dark about Mayo just at the minute, they don’t know what to expect from them. In a sense, they have to prove themselves all over again – another side-effect of not having won their All-Ireland. You get a lot more leeway when you’ve done it. And you probably get far too little of it when you haven’t.
But let’s say they beat Galway on Sunday and then win the Connacht final against Roscommon. That’s two good, credible wins against teams that are thought to be on the up. All of a sudden, in the space of a few weeks, the supporters are convinced again and the county is buzzing.
And no county can buzz like Mayo can buzz. People talk about tradition in the GAA but it’s actually interest that matters. Walk around some counties in the middle of the summer and you wouldn’t guess the championship was happening at all. There’s no chat about it, no flags, no pictures of players on the front of the local papers. But nobody would ever mistake Mayo for one of those counties.
This is why it’s silly to wonder if these Mayo fellas will come back and go again. Of course they will. Football is in them. It’s who they are, for better or worse, for richer or poorer. There’s no way that Mayo will be gone for long, if they’re gone at all.
We’ll get an idea on Sunday. This is a crucial game in a crucial year for them. They won’t want to waste all the momentum that made them the most consistent team in the country under Horan.
If they lose, it would be hard to see them getting it together to get a challenge going for the rest of the year. They’d still probably make it back for an All-Ireland quarter-final but Sam would surely be beyond them. But if they win, it puts a whole new complexion on things.[/QUOTE]
They certainly don’t want to be in the round 2b qualifier where there’s a 50% chance they will draw Tyrone or Donegal/Armagh.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1156634, member: 2272”]Yeah I noticed that.
Development squads are the choice - you make it very elite very young alright and the club is an adjunct to that. It’s key to intercounty success though as you can start to consistently control what they are doing but yeah you will lose players but at this stage it seems inter county success is all that matters[/QUOTE]
They are only elite if they are inflexible. That’s the key, allowing players to come and go, expose as many as possible.
Mayo would comfortably beat Tyrone or Armagh. They have the physicality to match either and far more firepower.
Mayo have a very good record against Ulster sides. They would see off Tyrone or Armagh comfortably enough. They hammered Donegal by something like 16 points the last time they faced them in the Championship.
Will you resign from the forum if they meet and lose to Armagh or Tyrone this year?
Your utter bitterness blinds you.
[QUOTE=“Nembo Kid, post: 1156731, member: 2514”]Will you resign from the forum if they meet and lose to Armagh or Tyrone this year?
Your utter bitterness blinds you.[/QUOTE]
Your the one that’s blinded if you feel Tyrone will beat Mayo. Historical references for what its worth are that Mayo have won 3 of their 4 previous championship meetings in 1989, 2004 and 2013. Tyrone’s lone win over Mayo was by 1 point in their last All Ireland winning year of 2008. Mayo coasted to a 6 point win the last time they faced Tyrone in the 2013 All Ireland semi final. Mayo have won the last 4 Connacht Championships. In the last 4 years, Mayo have been in 2 of 4 All Ireland Finals and were semi finalists in the other two years. Mayo dethroned the All Ireland champions in 2011 (Cork), 12 (Dublin) & 13 (Donegal) and in 2014 only lost out to the eventual All Ireland champions, Kerry after extra time in a replay. Tyrone haven’t even been to an Ulster Final since 2010 and have only made one All Ireland semi final this decade. Your probably going back to 2008 to find the last time Tyrone claimed a big scalp in the championship. I don’t believe they’ve beaten any of Kerry, Dublin, Cork, Mayo or Donegal in Championship football in any of the years since 2008.
Armagh’s formlines over the last 6-7 years are even worse than Tyrone. To the best of my knowledge Mayo’s win over Armagh in the 1950 All Ireland semi final represents their only previous championship meeting.
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1156759, member: 377”]Your the one that’s blinded if you feel Tyrone will beat Mayo. Historical references for what its worth are that Mayo have won 3 of their 4 previous championship meetings in 1989, 2004 and 2013. Tyrone’s lone win over Mayo was by 1 point in their last All Ireland winning year of 2008. Mayo coasted to a 6 point win the last time they faced Tyrone in the 2013 All Ireland semi final. Mayo have won the last 4 Connacht Championships. In the last 4 years, Mayo have been in 2 of 4 All Ireland Finals and were semi finalists in the other two years. Mayo dethroned the All Ireland champions in 2011 (Cork), 12 (Dublin) & 13 (Donegal) and in 2014 only lost out to the eventual All Ireland champions, Kerry after extra time in a replay. Tyrone haven’t even been to an Ulster Final since 2010 and have only made one All Ireland semi final this decade. Your probably going back to 2008 to find the last time Tyrone claimed a big scalp in the championship. I don’t believe they’ve beaten any of Kerry, Dublin, Cork, Mayo or Donegal in Championship football in any of the years since 2008.
Armagh’s formlines over the last 6-7 years are even worse than Tyrone. To the best of my knowledge Mayo’s win over Armagh in the 1950 All Ireland semi final represents their only previous championship meeting.[/QUOTE]
Yes. I’m sure a fixture over 50 years ago bears relevance to the present. Mayo have zero All Irelands in the past 62 years.
Armagh and Tyrone have 4 in the past 13 years.
As I said, the last thing Mayo want is to be going into a round 2 qualifier against the likes of Tyrone or Armagh/Donegal.
[QUOTE=“Nembo Kid, post: 1156768, member: 2514”]Yes. I’m sure a fixture over 50 years ago bears relevance to the present. Mayo have zero All Irelands in the past 62 years.
Armagh and Tyrone have 4 in the past 13 years.
As I said, the last thing Mayo want is to be going into a round 2 qualifier against the likes of Tyrone or Armagh/Donegal.[/QUOTE]
Armagh and Tyrone’s All Ireland wins in the last decade have about as much relevance as Mayo’s last All Ireland win, 64 (not 62 years ago). All of the Armagh winning team of 2002 are long since retired and probably two - Sean Cavanagh and Justin McMahon left off the Tyrone All Ireland winning sides.
Its just silly saying ‘Your utter bitterness blinds you’ in response to a prediction that Mayo would easily see of Tyrone or Armagh. Mayo have been one of the Top 4 that have been miles clear of the rest of the pack for the last 4-5 years. Armagh and Tyrone are barely (if even) in the top 10 sides. Its the only logical analysis of such a putative meeting.
Its great though that you have such blind faith in your teams and an almost childlike innocence and naivety that they will beat all-comers.
[QUOTE=“Nembo Kid, post: 1156768, member: 2514”]
As I said, the last thing Mayo want is to be going into a round 2 qualifier against the likes of Tyrone or Armagh/Donegal.[/QUOTE]
Ah here, whatever about facing Donegal, Mayo wouldn’t give 2 fucks facing into a qualifier/semi-final against the pick of Tyrone and Armagh. You see, like it or not, Mayo are a top 4 side patronisingly looking down their collective noses at the likes of your 2 “dangerous challengers”. Get a grip Totti…
Mayo havent a chance in hell of beating one of the Ulster big guys
they dont have the physicality or the mentality to compete
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1156780, member: 377”]Armagh and Tyrone’s All Ireland wins in the last decade have about as much relevance as Mayo’s last All Ireland win, 64 (not 62 years ago). All of the Armagh winning team of 2002 are long since retired and probably two - Sean Cavanagh and Justin McMahon left off the Tyrone All Ireland winning sides.
Its just silly saying ‘Your utter bitterness blinds you’ in response to a prediction that Mayo would easily see of Tyrone or Armagh. Mayo have been one of the Top 4 that have been miles clear of the rest of the pack for the last 4-5 years. Armagh and Tyrone are barely (if even) in the top 10 sides. Its the only logical analysis of such a putative meeting.
Its great though that you have such blind faith in your teams and an almost childlike innocence and naivety that they will beat all-comers.[/QUOTE]
Colm Cavanagh, Sean Cavanagh, Joe McMahon and Justy McMahon played in 08.