2015 All Ireland Football Championship - FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT STOP

Sport
81

[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1029104, member: 377”]This is another utter fiction, Dublin are all but unbeatable outside of Croke Park. You’d have a better chance of beating Dublin in Croke Park than you would when Dublin go on the road.

Since the emergence of Dublin as a powerhouse under Kevin Heffernan in 1974, by my reckoning Dublin have only lost twice in the Championship outside of Croke Park (in what would probably be over 30 games) - to Laois in the Leinster semi final in Tullamore in 1981 and to Kerry in the All Ireland quarter final replay in 2001 in Thurles.

It was a tradition for years, that Dublin opened their Championship campaign on the June bank holiday weekend with an away quarter final. Unless they were playing Meath or Kildare (with their big populations), Dublin in a Leinster semi final was often played at provincial venues as well. I can clearly recall in the All Ireland winning year of 1995, Dublin beat both Louth and Laois in Navan.

It was when the renovated Croke Park was taking shape around 1999 that all Dublin games were more or less fixed for Croke Park. There hasn’t been too many foray’s outside of Croke Park since the turn of the century, but those that there have been (bar the replay loss to Kerry in 2001 in Thurles) have resulted in the usual outcome when Dublin go on the road - a Dublin win. They beat Wexford in Dr Cullen Park in Carlow in 2002, beat Derry easily enough in a qualifier in Clones in 2003 and beat Longford in Pearse Park in 2007.[/QUOTE]

Yes we would beat them but I meant at least it wouldn’t be another boring day in Croker.

82

Says the man who not so long ago would be seen in a Dublin top with a Daily Record in his back pocket…

Now it’s Leitrim top and a Racing Post!!

83

The Dublin fans love going on the road and I’ve no doubt the Dublin players wouldn’t have any great bother heading off to Tullamore, Portlaoise, Navan, Carlow or Wexford like their predecessors did for years, either. Its the Leinster Council that schedule all these Dublin games for Croke Park because they want to cash in. Its utter nonsense though all these jibes about Dublin having it handy and getting preferential treatment because all their games are on in Croke Park.

84

The vast majority of the teams Dublin have played outside Croke Park in championship football in the last 30 years were teams they would have been expected to beat comfortably anywhere - the only teams which had a realistic chance of beating Dublin were Kerry in Thurles in 2001 and Derry in Clones in 2003. Laois in Navan in 1995 would have been given a very outside chance but no more. And only in the Kerry matches in Thurles were Dublin underdogs.

It’s fairly obvious that the only reason all of Dublin’s losses bar two since 1974 have come in Croke Park, is that Croke Park, certainly in the last 30 years, is pretty much the only venue where they play good teams.

The list of Dublin matches outside Croke Park in championship football in the last 30 years is as follows:
Longford 2006 in Longford
Longford 2004 in Portlaoise
Leitrim 2004 in Carrick On Shannon
Derry 2003 in Clones
Wexford 2002 in Carlow
Kerry 2001 in Thurles L
Kerry 2001 in Thurles D
Louth 1996 in Navan
Westmeath 1996 in Navan
Laois 1995 in Navan
Louth 1995 in Navan
Westmeath 1993 in Tullamore
Wexford 1993 in Wexford
Wexford 1992 in Portlaoise
Offaly 1992 in Tullamore
Wicklow 1990 in Newbridge
Louth 1990 in Drogheda
Kildare 1989 in Newbridge
Wicklow 1989 in Newbridge
Carlow 1988 in Carlow
Kildare 1987 in Newbridge
Offaly 1986 in Portlaoise
Wexford 1985 in Wexford

85

[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1029135, member: 183”]The vast majority of the teams Dublin have played outside Croke Park in championship football in the last 30 years were teams they would have been expected to beat comfortably anywhere - the only teams which had a realistic chance of beating Dublin were Kerry in Thurles in 2001 and Derry in Clones in 2003. Laois in Navan in 1995 would have been given a very outside chance but no more. And only in the Kerry matches in Thurles were Dublin underdogs.

It’s fairly obvious that the only reason all of Dublin’s losses bar two since 1974 have come in Croke Park, is that Croke Park, certainly in the last 30 years, is pretty much the only venue where they play good teams.

The list of Dublin matches outside Croke Park in championship football in the last 30 years is as follows:
Longford 2006 in Longford
Longford 2004 in Portlaoise
Leitrim 2004 in Carrick On Shannon
Derry 2003 in Clones
Wexford 2002 in Carlow
Kerry 2001 in Thurles L
Kerry 2001 in Thurles D
Louth 1996 in Navan
Westmeath 1996 in Navan
Laois 1995 in Navan
Louth 1995 in Navan
Westmeath 1993 in Tullamore
Wexford 1993 in Wexford
Wexford 1992 in Portlaoise
Offaly 1992 in Tullamore
Wicklow 1990 in Newbridge
Louth 1990 in Drogheda
Kildare 1989 in Newbridge
Wicklow 1989 in Newbridge
Carlow 1988 in Carlow
Kildare 1987 in Newbridge
Offaly 1986 in Portlaoise
Wexford 1985 in Wexford[/QUOTE]

And if Dublin are playing good teams, you’re talking about the biggest games of the year and they should be played in the country’s primary stadium. You don’t hear cribbing about FA Cup Finals or semi final being moved out of Wembley when Arsenal, Chelsea or Tottenham are playing their or big Australian Rules matches played outside of the MCG, when the Sydney Swans are playing a Melbourne team.

If you look at Dublin’s record in Croke Park against the teams I’ve referred to that have beaten them, over the last 30 years, I reckon it breaks down as follows:

Kerry - won 2 (2011 & 13) lost 5 (1984, 85, 04, 07, 09)
Cork - won 2 (1995 & 13) lost 2 (1989, 2010)
Mayo - won 2 (1985 & 13) lost 2 (2006, 2013) draw (1985)
Donegal - won 2 (2002 & 11) lost 2 (1992 & 2014), draw (2002)
Down - lost 1 (1994)
Derry - won 1 (2007) lost 1 (1993)
Tyrone - won 4 (1984, 95, 2010, 11) lost 2 (2005 & 08) draw (2005)
Armagh - won 1 (2010) lost 2 (2002 & 03)

I haven’t the time at the moment to figure out what the win/loss ratio is against Meath, but Meath beat Dublin in Croke Park in 1986, 87, 88, 90, 91, 96, 97, 99, 2001 & 10. Kildare beat Dublin in 1998 & 2000.

Bottom line is Dublin will beat the weaker teams 90%+ of the time whether its in Croke Park or provincial venues, the only real shocks they’ve had at Croke Park against the lesser lights is losing to Laois in 2003 & Westmeath in 2004.

Against stronger teams, their record at Croke Park is pretty much 50/50. The big teams have no hang ups about facing Dublin in Croke Park and its no great advantage to Dublin. If Dublin v Donegal is going to attract an 82,500 full house, well it should be played in Croke Park and not in Clones or Ballybofey.

86

[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 1029142, member: 377”]And if Dublin are playing good teams, you’re talking about the biggest games of the year and they should be played in the country’s primary stadium. You don’t hear cribbing about FA Cup Finals or semi final being moved out of Wembley when Arsenal, Chelsea or Tottenham are playing their or big Australian Rules matches played outside of the MCG, when the Sydney Swans are playing a Melbourne team.

If you look at Dublin’s record in Croke Park against the teams I’ve referred to that have beaten them, over the last 30 years, I reckon it breaks down as follows:

Kerry - won 2 (2011 & 13) lost 5 (1984, 85, 04, 07, 09)
Cork - won 2 (1995 & 13) lost 2 (1989, 2010)
Mayo - won 2 (1985 & 13) lost 2 (2006, 2013) draw (1985)
Donegal - won 2 (2002 & 11) lost 2 (1992 & 2014), draw (2002)
Down - lost 1 (1994)
Derry - won 1 (2007) lost 1 (1993)
Tyrone - won 4 (1984, 95, 2010, 11) lost 2 (2005 & 08) draw (2005)
Armagh - won 1 (2010) lost 2 (2002 & 03)

I haven’t the time at the moment to figure out what the win/loss ratio is against Meath, but Meath beat Dublin in Croke Park in 1986, 87, 88, 90, 91, 96, 97, 99, 2001 & 10. Kildare beat Dublin in 1998 & 2000.

Bottom line is Dublin will beat the weaker teams 90%+ of the time whether its in Croke Park or provincial venues, the only real shocks they’ve had at Croke Park against the lesser lights is losing to Laois in 2003 & Westmeath in 2004.

Against stronger teams, their record at Croke Park is pretty much 50/50. The big teams have no hang ups about facing Dublin in Croke Park and its no great advantage to Dublin. If Dublin v Donegal is going to attract an 82,500 full house, well it should be played in Croke Park and not in Clones or Ballybofey.[/QUOTE]
Your point was that Dublin are pretty much unbeatable outside Croke Park compared to their “poor” record in Croke Park.

I’m saying that’s a stupid comparison, as Dublin have almost exclusively played dross outside of Croke Park, so of course they’re going to have a good record.

Nobody’s arguing about moving Leinster finals or All-Ireland series games involving Dublin outside of Croke Park, so I don’t know what you’re on about there.

87

No one wants to go to Carlow though.

88

I want to go to Carlow.

89

[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1029148, member: 183”]Your point was that Dublin are pretty much unbeatable outside Croke Park compared to their “poor” record in Croke Park.

I’m saying that’s a stupid comparison, as Dublin have almost exclusively played dross outside of Croke Park, so of course they’re going to have a good record.

Nobody’s arguing about moving Leinster finals or All-Ireland series games involving Dublin outside of Croke Park, so I don’t know what you’re on about there.[/QUOTE]

It wasn’t my point, I was dealing with all the moaning about Dublin having an unfair advantage playing all their games in Croke Park and not having to play games outside of Croke Park.

I was well aware that Dublin’s 90%+ winning record outside of Croke Park was bolstered by the fact that a lot of those wins were against the likes of Carlow, Longford, Wexford & Louth. My point was this, there is no advantage for Dublin one way or the other playing inside Croke Park or out of it. They’ll beat the cannon fodder whether its in Croke Park or on the road, the strong teams that are contending for honours have no hang up’s playing in Croke Park and it pretty much breaks 50/50 over the long run as to whether Dublin win or lose those games.

They should do what the Leinster Council have done with the Leinster Hurling championship over the last 7/8 years. All games before the final at provincial venues. Then from Leinster Final/AI Quarter Final on, if Dublin are playing, its in Croke Park.

90

[QUOTE=“Sidney, post: 1029135, member: 183”]The vast majority of the teams Dublin have played outside Croke Park in championship football in the last 30 years were teams they would have been expected to beat comfortably anywhere - the only teams which had a realistic chance of beating Dublin were Kerry in Thurles in 2001 and Derry in Clones in 2003. Laois in Navan in 1995 would have been given a very outside chance but no more. And only in the Kerry matches in Thurles were Dublin underdogs.

It’s fairly obvious that the only reason all of Dublin’s losses bar two since 1974 have come in Croke Park, is that Croke Park, certainly in the last 30 years, is pretty much the only venue where they play good teams.

The list of Dublin matches outside Croke Park in championship football in the last 30 years is as follows:
Longford 2006 in Longford
Longford 2004 in Portlaoise
Leitrim 2004 in Carrick On Shannon
Derry 2003 in Clones
Wexford 2002 in Carlow
Kerry 2001 in Thurles L
Kerry 2001 in Thurles D
Louth 1996 in Navan
Westmeath 1996 in Navan
Laois 1995 in Navan
Louth 1995 in Navan
Westmeath 1993 in Tullamore
Wexford 1993 in Wexford
Wexford 1992 in Portlaoise
Offaly 1992 in Tullamore
Wicklow 1990 in Newbridge
Louth 1990 in Drogheda
Kildare 1989 in Newbridge
Wicklow 1989 in Newbridge
Carlow 1988 in Carlow
Kildare 1987 in Newbridge
Offaly 1986 in Portlaoise
Wexford 1985 in Wexford[/QUOTE]

I played in the mini-game in Portlaoise in 1992 during half time of the above mentioned Dublin v Wexford clash. We were a tad unlucky if I recall correctly.

91

No you don’t

92

It’s not even in question that Croke Park is an advantage to Dublin. It’s their home ground. The question is only of how much of an advantage it is when measured against how familiar their opponents are with it.

93

When did you stop playing, and would you have considered yourself and\or been deemed “handy”.
And why did you not fulfill your talent?

94

Is Scragg’s Alley still open? What a spot. :clap:

95

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1029161, member: 273”]When did you stop playing, and would you have considered yourself and\or been deemed “handy”.
And why did you not fulfill your talent?[/QUOTE]
Bender

96

Parnell Park is Dublin’s home ground.

97

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1029161, member: 273”]When did you stop playing, and would you have considered yourself and\or been deemed “handy”.
And why did you not fulfill your talent?[/QUOTE]
I sense another one of Kev’s patented psychological analyses™ of somebody he’s never met is close at hand.

98

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1029161, member: 273”]When did you stop playing, and would you have considered yourself and\or been deemed “handy”.
And why did you not fulfill your talent?[/QUOTE]

a serious injury ruined his career apparently …

99

its the master taking on the student as Poundage likes to dabble in this sort of behavior too…

100

[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 1028983, member: 2533”]So on the B side of the qualifiers you are likely to have

4 of Donegal/Armagh/Tyrone/Down/Derry
Galway or Mayo

All fighting for 2 spots in the last 12 of the All Ireland - an absolute joke of a draw. [/QUOTE]

You’re talking about a lot of poor teams there. If we take the 5 in Ulster you have referred to, Donegal are a Top 4 side (most probably on the way down due to their age profile). After that, maybe Tyrone at a push are just about a Top 10 side. Derry, Down and Armagh are light years away from where they were when they were winning All Ireland’s in 1991, 93, 94 & 2002.

Derry haven’t won a provincial title since 1998 and in this decade Derry have exited the Championship twice at the hands of Longford (2012 & 14) - a Longford side that are in Division 4 of the national league and twice to Kildare (2010 & 11) - with an 11 point hammering at home in Celtic Park to Kildare in 2010.

Down haven’t won a provincial title since 1994 and have had a few right hammering in recent years - Kildare beat them by 10 point in Newry this year, in 2012 Donegal beat them by 11 points in Ulster and Mayo then knocked them out of the Championship beating them by 12 points and in 2011, Cork beat Down by 12 points.

Armagh haven’t been in an Ulster Final since they last won it in 2008, and they’ve exited the Championship to the likes of Wexford, Roscommon & Galway in recent years and were even held to a draw by Wicklow. They are now operating in Division 3 of the National League.

Tyrone haven’t plummeted to those levels, but no provincial final appearance since 2010 and well beaten by Dublin by 7 points in 2011, Kerry by 10 points in 2012 and Mayo by 6 points in 2013 and were awful this year when they went out to Armagh.

I would see the top half of the draw in Leinster as comparatively difficult to that if not more difficult. You have Dublin there, a top 8 side in Kildare, Laois who are probably a top 10 side and Longford (who despite their lowly league status) can be a dangerous proposition in the championship.