Dimmy/Jason is nothing if not a stereotype. I was too kind him in the below paragraph. Heâs full Johnny Arse.
Never go full Johnny Arse.
Israel is an internationally recognised State that has a right to exist.
That does not mean Israel can do what it wants or the politicians cannot be questioned.
But the simple fact is the above is bile.
I know that your brain generally moves only from one big story to the other and the depth doesnât always come out, but you realise that States and State lines move fairly regularly in world history?
You are blaming the children of refugees (and Holocaust ones) for where they were born and calling them colonisers. Odd how @Rocko permits this kind of far right discourse.
1 Like
Itâs a simple point.
Why is it okay to say Yoav Gallant is really Polish when he was born in Jaffa?
They are colonisers. They came to Palestine to set up their own state and displace the natives. They penned them into ghettoes and have just murdered 40,000 people. They continue to bombard them with bombs. They openly hope for mass death of the natives through disease.
If a million Irish people descended on the Sinai tomorrow and set up their own state called Iresrail, that would be a colonial project.
What is a stateâs âright to existâ?
Does Galicia have a right to exist?
Does Alsace have a right to exist as part of Germany?
Did the Soviet Union have a right to exist? Did the British Empire have a right to exist?
Do you object to the term native American?
You apply zero standards to Israel and your worldview is now openly the same as that of the most notorious colonisers throughout history.
1 Like
What nationality is somebody born in Vilnius in 1941?
What nationality is somebody born in Vienna in May 1938?
What nationality is somebody born in Brooklyn in 1965 who moved to the West Bank in 2018?
The State of Israel entered the UN in 1949 yet you do you not think it should exist.
@Cheasty appears to not agree with the international rules based world order put into place post World War I.
This puts into focus any statement from you about international law etc. Indeed it undermines anything as regards settlements.
Your post above is very interesting in the context to his previous posts talking about the need for international recognition.
Much like with refugees, it appears these cherished things donât matter when it comes to the Jews.
Some might say you make it up as you go along.
2 Likes
Whatever way a country chooses to recognise citizenship in the context of the international rules order.
It appears that is something you cherish and think is important, except for Israelis and Jews.
The far right is alive and well on TFK anyway.
You havenât pointed out any actual problem with anything Iâve written.
The Soviet Union was recognised by the UN. So was Yugoslavia. Did they have a right to exist?
What nationality is Bezalel Smotrich?
Why do colonists have a right to come in en masse and set up a colonial state which oppresses and genocides the natives?
Why are you so protective of the right to commit colonial genocide?
According to your own words-
Thereâs heaps more from on the topic if you want me to quote it but I think thatâs succinct.
Here is the news report of Israel about to be recognised by the UN.
So what youâre saying is that a state of Israel exists in nature and that no borders can or should ever change?
Funny how Israel says it has a âright to existâ yet continually denies Palestineâs right to exist, isnât it?
Funny how youâre fine with that.
Does the fictional state of Iresrail have a âright to existâ? Does an Islamic caliphate in Andalusia as espoused by the most fundamentalist Islamists have a âright to existâ?
All this comes back to what you are - base principles, core beliefs.
Your core belief, when we boil it down, is that you hold the rights of imperial colonisers most dear. Their ârightsâ - ie. the right to oppress, displace and genocide - are always the ârightsâ that should be upheld.
You are waffling now. Iâm not defending Israelâs actions here as a State.
What I am saying is that they exist under what you describe below;
I am also saying that calling someone born in a particular place a coloniser is the language of the far right. Will you be taking anymore inspiration from Justin Barrett et al?
2 Likes
The only real way a country can become a country is by convincing other countries that it is a country. And more of those countries recognise Israel than do Palestine. Israel has a right to exist enshrined in international law and for very good reasons.
What theyâve done as a state is terrible, though no worse than a lot of others.
1 Like
I didnât call Jamie Heaslip a coloniser, mate. Nor do I call Terry Butcher or Dr. Pat OâNeill colonisers. Or Leo Varadkar or Hazel Chu.
I called Israel a colonial project. Which it is. Same as the US is. And Argentina. And Russia. Millions of people invaded a land and set up their own state and oppressed and murdered the people who were living there in order to set up that state. They kept them under the jackboot and the jackboot is now getting ever worse. Thatâs what a colonial project is.
You say Bezalel Smotrich is Israeli and not a coloniser despite him being born in the occupied Golan Heights and living in the occupied West Bank.
In terms of waffle, you are Mr. Birdâs Eye.
Like Northern Ireland?
The reality is that the people who moved to Israel used the Holocaust as blackmail to get international recognition for their own colonial project, and this state now behaves in much the same way as the regime which went on to commit the Holocaust.
The international community recognised Germanyâs annexation of Austria and Czechoslovakia. It recognised Nazi Germanyâs ârightâ to call those places âGermanyâ.
It recognised Russiaâs ârightâ to call Lithuania and Georgia âthe Soviet Unionâ. It recognised Indonesia right to call East Timor âIndonesiaâ.
Israel has exposed the Westâs hopeless double standard as regards barbarity. The West has willingly allowed Israel to destroy any moral authority the west has. And that is a disaster.
This has worked out mostly as I predicted, with the exception of the re-election of Mick Wallace and Clare Daly, thankfully.
Tim cries about âinternational lawâ yet supported the invasion of Iraq and now heâs most concerned about the ârightsâ of those who now commit genocide.
So like Northern Ireland? Those people up there are Scottish and English really.
164 to 143, I think. Not much in it. Palestine moving up fast on the outside.
Aye. It seems like most of the world thinks both should exist
I think what youâre at here is trying to use the context of ongoing ethnic cleansing mass atrocity to get a reaction and I think itâs moronic, and pathetic.
Correction, 145. Both states have a right to exist, Israel within itâs pre 67 borders and with refugees allowed return home and withdrawn from all its illegal colonies, with appropriate reparations to Palestine.