100%. This could be the worst attrocity in generations.
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What is so important about this tiny strip of land anyway?
Israel took the West Bank by force and settled it, breaking international law, they have basically been occupying it and there has never been international recrimination for it.
What do the Israelis want with it? Fuck all of their people are there I assume? And fuck all natural resources?
It just looks like hassle for them.
There are Israeli settlers there. I donât think they want the land so much as they donât want the Palestinians in it
Itâs one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, only about 25 miles long and six or seven miles wide with a population of more than 2 million people.
Itâll be horrific if and when this ground offensive begins.
Starving people out of it canât continue with the world watching on, youâd hope.
they surely wonât go in on the ground? theyâll just bomb the shit out of it and stop any aid going in
They are going in alright, or so they say. They have to get the hostages. And murder people more precisely
The babies being beheaded story is very important. Itâs explosive. If proven true it serves as dynamite propaganda, the sort of propaganda that enables a genocide to proceed.
What Hamas has been proven to have done is already awful enough. In one sense it doesnât really make a difference how you kill a baby, or babies. The baby is still dead either way. But in another sense it matters very much. Deliberately beheading a baby or babies would signify the breaking of the last taboo of humanity.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The thing is, this story should be very easy to properly verify. You bring in a group of reputable independent journalists and reputable international observers and show them the evidence first hand, if it exists.
Bidenâs words last night are not proof this happened. He either tripped over his words and momentarily corrected himself without correcting himself, or deliberately put in a sleight of hand to imply he has seen pictures of beheaded babies. But he has not seen such pictures.
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what does that tell you? they are looking for any means necessary to achieve whatever it is that their goals are, which is probably wiping the place off the face of the map
they wonât turn back on the water or allow aid until the hostages are released. I donât think many of those hostages are coming back regardless bud, going in on the ground will condemn many more thousands on both sides than is necessary to die
Can supplies, water, fuel etc be shipped to Gaza along the coast? Do Israel control their waters too?
Iâd say those poor hostages have a slim enough chance of emerging alive, if indeed they havenât been killed already.
Israel itself has a population of only about 9 million, itâs incredible the influence it has on world affairs due to its ties with Uncle Sam and the intertwined wealth thatâs reciprocated between the pair of them.
Horrible, horrible situation.
Is it reasonable to think both sides in this are as bad as each other, while having sympathy for ordinary people caught up in it who are killed, injured, brutalised or bereaved?
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The darkest period in human history wouldnât have anything to do with it?
Egypt is attempting to set up an aid corridor along the border but has closed the border. Given how small the area is I donât know how viable getting boats to dock into an active warzone is
theyâve hit a sea port already - I wouldnât be docking a boat there @Spidey
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The Hamas leader lives in Qatar. A billionaire. While he uses kids as as I read earlier âhuman sandbagsâ.
Ill try and break it down
I did post about if above but do appreciate that the situation is not straight forward
- The Gaza strip is that tiny piece of land in the SW corner or Israel, North corner of Egypt- there are no Israelis living there , as we said above Sharon pulled them out in 2005, the Israelis want nothing to do with it as it costs them a fortune, the Israeli problem with it is it is under the control of Hamas whose sole charter is the destruction of Israel, israelâs issue is that they need to defend themselves from hamas and hence these punitive restrictions it places on the area of land. Gaza shares a land border with Eqypt and Israel, both borders are closed,
- Both Israel , Egypt and Hamas couldnât give a fuck about Gaza or the people in it, Hamas are a toy that iran use to antagonise the Israeli state , they commit mass murder and donât care who they impact, Israel claim their OTT actions are defensive and want to eliminate Hamas despite facilitating Hamas by creating these restrictions on the strip that cause resentment and no hope for the population. The mass murder last Saturday morning is their justification for the need to eliminate Hamas
- Egypt like all arab countries despise Palestinians- like Jordan and Lebanon they are happy its an Israeli problem
- Hamas seized control of Gaza in 2006 from Fatah or the PA who control the west bank- they are sworn enemies
- The west bank is a totally different situation, this is the area of land between Jordan and israel, again parts under Israeli control parts under PA control but the problem being that the Israeli settler movement that as we discussed previously hold the balance of power in Netanyahuâs coalition are wrecking havoc trying to settle the area â the tension here is always bad but off the scale last year since Itamar Ben Gvir and Belazel Shmortich entered Netanyahuâs cabinet. I predict the third Intifada will start in Jenin soon and all hell , all hell will break loose. There are daily stabbings, shootings here, it is probably one of the most unstable places on earth- The Israelis have an interest in the west bank as again the right wing factions want to extend into it but also due to active terror groups they see it as an area that is a threat to them, hence the wall
- Then in isreal itself you have a mixture of jews and Israeli arabs like where I lived in Ramle or Haifa, Jerusalem and Beer Sheva⌠tension here now is very bad- and violence is kicking off
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what will be the outcome of this in the short, medium and long term in your opinion mate, whatâs the best/worst case?
If I recall correctly, they took the West Bank during the 1967 war, a war that was launched by their Arab neighbours. This followed the immediate invasion of Israel by the Arab neighbours in 1948 when they declared independence and the British evacuated and preceded the surprise invasion of Israel in 1973 (which came close to over-running the country) by the same Arab neighbours. In each case the Arab alliance were the aggressors but had their holes handed to them. The more they attacked Israel the more they went backwards.
Israel argue that some of the captured territories namely Golan Heights, West Bank are essential for security and point to the three invasions in 25 odd years as evidence to that end. Iâm not sure if the Gaza Strip has the same strategic significance although it is very close geographically to Tel Aviv. Israel did give Sinai back to Egypt at some step along the way.
All that being said, how the Israelis have treated the Arabâs/Palestinians in Israel over the years has ranged from poor to downright outrageous and there is no justification for the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza or to cut-off electricity and water.
Itâs hard to see any solution when Hamas are in power in Gaza. Their avowed aim is the destruction of the state of Israel and the elimination of the Jewish people. Hard to negotiate with that and even if Israel handed back the West Bank (which wonât happen) youâd want to be some eejit based upon history and current pronouncements to believe that would secure Israel or bring peace to the area.
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