Aussie Rules 2013

Sport
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Malthouse brought him into the team in June of Clarke’s first year out there so surely deserves some credit for getting him up to that level so quickly?

Player loses form and falls out with manager. Big deal. Collingwood reached two Grand Finals and won one without Clarke. Clarke is hardly setting the world on fire since he went back. Has he even got a regular game with Collingwood the last two seasons?

Even if Malthouse’s book is a load of self-indulgent crap, which I’ve no idea if it is or not, does it matter a fuck? He’s won three Premierships, which only one other coach has done in the last 25 years. The second and third were 16 years apart so he clearly adapted as the game changed.

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[quote=“Sidney, post: 854570, member: 183”]Malthouse brought him into the team in June of Clarke’s first year out there so surely deserves some credit for getting him up to that level so quickly?

Player loses form and falls out with manager. Big deal. Collingwood reached two Grand Finals and won one without Clarke. Clarke is hardly setting the world on fire since he went back. Has he even got a regular game with Collingwood the last two seasons?

Even if Malthouse’s book is a load of self-indulgent crap, which I’ve no idea if it is or not, does it matter a fuck? He’s won three Premierships, which only one other coach has done in the last 25 years. The second and third were 16 years apart so he clearly adapted as the game changed.[/quote]

It’s he changed the game, not theother way round. But he absolutely deserves credit for winning 3 Premerships. But that’s a million miles from what I’m saying in regards Sheehan. Clarke deserves more credit than anyone for adapting to the game though. It has ultimately proved though that a free spirit if a footballer like Clarke will never reach full potential under systematic regimes likes Collingwood. They are gone to shit cos Buckley wants them all to be clones of himself. Classic great player coaching mistake.

It’s easy know you’re having a few drinks tonight Sid.

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[quote=“Sidney, post: 854570, member: 183”]Malthouse brought him into the team in June of Clarke’s first year out there so surely deserves some credit for getting him up to that level so quickly?

Player loses form and falls out with manager. Big deal. Collingwood reached two Grand Finals and won one without Clarke. Clarke is hardly setting the world on fire since he went back. Has he even got a regular game with Collingwood the last two seasons?

Even if Malthouse’s book is a load of self-indulgent crap, which I’ve no idea if it is or not, does it matter a fuck? He’s won three Premierships, which only one other coach has done in the last 25 years. The second and third were 16 years apart so he clearly adapted as the game changed.[/quote]

yeah he deserves credit for bringing him in, but Clarke deserves it more if he was good enough to be brought in. Plus some of the shit he said about Clarke in his book surprised me. Clarke wanted to be a star player like Didak or Davis, and Malthouse said he should know his place and be happy he is involved and not be so selfish. Clarke didnt play again for him. Like Kev says, he showed some initiative and drive and wanted to better himself, but Malthouse wanted him to be a clone and stick to a regimented role. Clarke played most of the first half of the year, and finished up on the injured list.

Of course he deserves credit, I’m only making the point that Kev is right that Sheehan wouldnt be the right sort for him. Malthouse will be recognised as one of the best coaches when he finally retires, but it doesnt mean he cant be a sanctimonious self serving prick. He also has taken over a Carlton team who were pushing for top 4 positions and with a very good and deep talented squad, and only for Essendon hopping off drugs, they wouldnt have played finals this year. Expectation will be high for them this year, and if he doesnt perform he’ll be gone.

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[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 854571, member: 273”]It’s he changed the game, not theother way round. But he absolutely deserves credit for winning 3 Premerships. But that’s a million miles from what I’m saying in regards Sheehan. Clarke deserves more credit than anyone for adapting to the game though. It has ultimately proved though that a free spirit if a footballer like Clarke will never reach full potential under systematic regimes likes Collingwood. They are gone to shit cos Buckley wants them all to be clones of himself. Classic great player coaching mistake.

It’s easy know you’re having a few drinks tonight Sid.[/quote]
Stone cold sober, Kev.

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Obviously Clarke getting into the team was a massive achievement but he clearly received good coaching and guidance to be able to do it so quickly.

No Irish player to the best of my knowledge has made it as a really key player in an attacking, ball playing position. Stynes was a ruckman while Kennelly was a defender. Clarke looked to have serious potential as an up and down running wing back/ rover type player but didn’t follow it up and that can’t all be put down to Malthouse. Homesickness was the reason he gave for coming back when he left Collingwood and it may well have been a genuine reason.

From my admittedly limited watching of the game in recent years (the vast majority finals matches, an odd glimpse at highlights during the season, a bit of reading about the game here and there) I found Malthouse’s teams to be reasonably attractive to watch. They were involved in some cracking finals matches against West Coast and Geelong in '07, Adelaide in '09, they destroyed Geelong in '10 and drew that Grand Final against St. Kilda, and then made a decent fist of retaining their title beating Hawthorn in a thriller and losing an excellent Grand Final to Geelong. His teams that reached the Grand Finals in '02 and '03 had a good few flair players if I remember rightly.

And to say he changed the game is a very big compliment. I wouldn’t really know enough about the tactical side of the game to agree or disagree with that statement.

Sheehan is probably too old in my view to go out there now and should look at what’s happened to Tommy Walsh. 23 in a few weeks, that’ s too old.

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Why are you arguing about

  1. Nothing we were talking about?
  2. Something you don’t seem to know a lot about
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[quote=“Sidney, post: 854643, member: 183”]Obviously Clarke getting into the team was a massive achievement but he clearly received good coaching and guidance to be able to do it so quickly.

No Irish player to the best of my knowledge has made it as a really key player in an attacking, ball playing position. Stynes was a ruckman while Kennelly was a defender. Clarke looked to have serious potential as an up and down running wing back/ rover type player but didn’t follow it up and that can’t all be put down to Malthouse. Homesickness was the reason he gave for coming back when he left Collingwood and it may well have been a genuine reason.

From my admittedly limited watching of the game in recent years (the vast majority finals matches, an odd glimpse at highlights during the season, a bit of reading about the game here and there) I found Malthouse’s teams to be reasonably attractive to watch. They were involved in some cracking finals matches against West Coast and Geelong in '07, Adelaide in '09, they destroyed Geelong in '10 and drew that Grand Final against St. Kilda, and then made a decent fist of retaining their title beating Hawthorn in a thriller and losing an excellent Grand Final to Geelong. His teams that reached the Grand Finals in '02 and '03 had a good few flair players if I remember rightly.

And to say he changed the game is a very big compliment. I wouldn’t really know enough about the tactical side of the game to agree or disagree with that statement.

Sheehan is probably too old in my view to go out there now and should look at what’s happened to Tommy Walsh. 23 in a few weeks, that’ s too old.[/quote]

A lot of the games you mention were exciting due to closeness, not quality. The quality in a lot of play-offs/finals have been very poor in my time here, grinding turgid games.

He mastered that in fairness. He’s a very successful coach no doubt but a few of the older and more astute commentators and ex-players are starting to bemoan his influence now. Like all successful coaches his coaching is being mimicked. And if if anyone can do mimicking poorly then it’s the Aussies.

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[quote=“Sidney, post: 854643, member: 183”]Obviously Clarke getting into the team was a massive achievement but he clearly received good coaching and guidance to be able to do it so quickly.

No Irish player to the best of my knowledge has made it as a really key player in an attacking, ball playing position. Stynes was a ruckman while Kennelly was a defender. Clarke looked to have serious potential as an up and down running wing back/ rover type player but didn’t follow it up and that can’t all be put down to Malthouse. Homesickness was the reason he gave for coming back when he left Collingwood and it may well have been a genuine reason.

From my admittedly limited watching of the game in recent years (the vast majority finals matches, an odd glimpse at highlights during the season, a bit of reading about the game here and there) I found Malthouse’s teams to be reasonably attractive to watch. They were involved in some cracking finals matches against West Coast and Geelong in '07, Adelaide in '09, they destroyed Geelong in '10 and drew that Grand Final against St. Kilda, and then made a decent fist of retaining their title beating Hawthorn in a thriller and losing an excellent Grand Final to Geelong. His teams that reached the Grand Finals in '02 and '03 had a good few flair players if I remember rightly.

And to say he changed the game is a very big compliment. I wouldn’t really know enough about the tactical side of the game to agree or disagree with that statement.

Sheehan is probably too old in my view to go out there now and should look at what’s happened to Tommy Walsh. 23 in a few weeks, that’ s too old.[/quote]

That’s some serious googling by the way. Don’t think I didn’t notice the time lapse between posts! Or were you just popping down the “Offie”?

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[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 854649, member: 273”]Why are you arguing about

  1. Nothing we were talking about?
  2. Something you don’t seem to know a lot about[/quote]
    I’m sorry, Kev? What do you think we are talking about?

I do know quite a bit about Aussie Rules having watched it since the late 80s but as I said it’s quite difficult to follow it to a really in depth level over here. I’d be quite confident my knowledge of it would have trumped yours quite easily until a couple of years ago, but I guess you know it all now, and fair play to you on that.

Knowing nothing about a subject has never stopped you arguing, by the way. You only have to look at your ramblings on hurling this year to see that.

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Ah, Kev, you’re losing big time here if that’s the best you can do. I didn’t do a Netscape for any of that by the way, well I did for seeing what age Sheehan was, but what’s the problem you have with that?

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The quality in the key games I saw this year was definitely average enough with a lot of poor shooting. The quality when Geelong and Collingwood were the top teams a few years back was better.

[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 854658, member: 273”]
He mastered that in fairness. He’s a very successful coach no doubt but a few of the older and more astute commentators and ex-players are starting to bemoan his influence now. Like all successful coaches his coaching is being mimicked. And if if anyone can do mimicking poorly then it’s the Aussies.[/quote]
So if Sheehan went to Australia he’d be better off being coached by somebody who has a coherent, original and successful philosophy on the game rather than a mimic? Agreed.

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[quote=“Sidney, post: 854660, member: 183”]I’m sorry, Kev? What do you think we are talking about?

I do know quite a bit about Aussie Rules having watched it since the late 80s but as I said it’s quite difficult to follow it to a really in depth level over here. I’d be quite confident my knowledge of it would have trumped yours quite easily until a couple of years ago, but I guess you know it all now, and fair play to you on that.

Knowing nothing about a subject has never stopped you arguing, by the way. You only have to look at your ramblings on hurling this year to see that.[/quote]

You jumped into a conversation about Ciaran Sheehan not being suited to Malthouse.

You used Marty Clarke as an example when everyone knows Clarke left because of hiM. Terrible example.

This all happened before I got here

You then started waffling on about Malthouses record yet we were talking about the style and environment at Collingwood.

Then you went on to list a load of close games (which you clearly googled, but may have watched at the time) that were close but often not that entertaining till final minutes. This is not to mention his couple of hoodwinkings he has got by younger coaches as well over past few years.

The Aussies fete him, but it’s certainly not for the style his teams play with.

You are talking thru your ass here Sid and waded in just to sound like you know what you were talking about, when we were discussing something else.

I more or less called the whole hurling season right. Predicted Limericks win, Clare to win replay, Cork to reach final etc

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[quote=“Sidney, post: 854665, member: 183”]The quality in the key games I saw this year was definitely average enough with a lot of poor shooting. The quality when Geelong and Collingwood were the top teams a few years back was better.

So if Sheehan went to Australia he’d be better off being coached by somebody who has a coherent, original and successful philosophy on the game rather than a mimic? Agreed.[/quote]

Well that helps, but more importantly someone who is patient and let’s him grow into the best player he can be, not what a coach thinks he can make of him.

I don’t think Sheehan is going to go or is that suited. He probably would have excelled 15-25 years ago but as you say it’s too late to develop those skills now and there are plenty Aussie lads with his jumping and running ability (but maybe not his brain).

I’m nearly certain Sheehan was at Carlton 5 years ago and didn’t like it.

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I’m worried it’s the best you can do.

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[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 854666, member: 273”]You jumped into a conversation about Ciaran Sheehan not being suited to Malthouse.

You used Marty Clarke as an example when everyone knows Clarke left because of hiM. Terrible example.

This all happened before I got here

You then started waffling on about Malthouses record yet we were talking about the style and environment at Collingwood.

Then you went on to list a load of close games (which you clearly googled, but may have watched at the time) that were close but often not that entertaining till final minutes. This is not to mention his couple of hoodwinkings he has got by younger coaches as well over past few years.

The Aussies fete him, but it’s certainly not for the style his teams play with.

You are talking thru your ass here Sid and waded in just to sound like you know what you were talking about, when we were discussing something else.

I more or less called the whole hurling season right. Predicted Limericks win, Clare to win replay, Cork to reach final etc[/quote]
I didn’t have to Bing any of those matches, Kev, much as you might not like that fact.

You’re tying yourself up in knots big time here. You stated an opinion that Sheehan going to a team coached by Malthouse “would be a disaster of epic proportions”. I gave a counter-argument that Malthouse deserves at least some credit for his role in Clarke’s rapid development when he went to Australia.

I also stated that I felt Sheehan was too old to go to Australia given that he’s almost 23.

You flew off the handle in classic style when met with a reasonable argument.

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[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 854666, member: 273”]
I more or less called the whole hurling season right. Predicted Limericks win, Clare to win replay, Cork to reach final etc[/quote]
Where did you predict this?

477

I even bet on it Sid. It’s in one of the betting threads. I think @Kinvara’s Passion replied to it.

You did some searching I’d say.

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[quote=“Sidney, post: 854672, member: 183”]I didn’t have to Bing any of those matches, Kev, much as you might not like that fact.

You’re tying yourself up in knots big time here. You stated an opinion that Sheehan going to a team coached by Malthouse “would be a disaster of epic proportions”. I gave a counter-argument that Malthouse deserves at least some credit for his role in Clarke’s rapid development when he went to Australia.

I also stated that I felt Sheehan was too old to go to Australia given that he’s almost 23.

You flew off the handle in classic style when met with a reasonable argument.[/quote]

Who flew off the handle?

You started on about Clarke and Malthouse clearly not having a notion what you were on about. 2 of us pulled you FFS.

Take the beating and move on Sid.

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[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 854690, member: 273”]I even bet on it Sid. It’s in one of the betting threads. I think @Kinvara’s Passion replied to it.

You did some searching I’d say.[/quote]
I certainly did, Kev. A quick flick through this thread does the job nicely. Only takes a couple of minutes. http://www.thefreekick.com/board/index.php?threads/clare-v-cork-gaa-hurling-all-ireland-senior-championship-2013-final-replay.18033/

If you can quote a post where you clearly said Clare would win, I will apologise.

[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 829468, member: 273”]I agree, the Clare teams mindset is very impressive. There is a slight chance of even receiving a trophy as been seen as reward which can take fellas down a notch.

But I think it’s more to do with physical preperation. I think Cork have an edge now. They probably have it anyway as they know there is alot more in them and they were tactically and mentally Ill-prepared Sunday. That’s won’t happen again.[/quote]

[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 837085, member: 273”]Honestly that’s my hope. I don’t think they will out point Cork going that way.

They need to play the same way but they need to change their match ups and they must play better in full back line.

Cork must play better at half back and half forward and get more possession in Clare’s half of the field. Corks forwards overall are better than Clare’s, if they get enough ball they will win.

However Cork won’t win without Harnedy.[/quote]

[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 837569, member: 273”]I’m not surprised by that stat on Horgan. MINd you it could have a lot to do with his marker as well and teams knowing his potential.

I thought that was good from Davy but I should have said earlier, I don’t buy all of this “we just go and play crack”. They were clearly over coached for Munster game.

As you say if Cork are more ready and Clare drop back at all Cork will win by 5+

However I expect Clare to get close to that again and Cork to match it. It will come down to injuries, freEs and both teams staying with 15.[/quote]

480

You did, Kev. Threw the toys right out.

But I clearly do have a notion, having followed Clarke’s career since he went to Australia. Why do you need Gman to come in and bail you out? Can you not fight your own battles?

Classic Kev. :smiley: