Brexit as I see it, is how they leave and under what terms
Yeah, but that wasn’t the question I asked.
The fact you can’t answer it shows how spectacularly stupid holding the referendum was in the first place.
Referendums can lead to a total fiasco if one option is a completely undefined choice, and that’s what has happened.
Any proposed idea for what Brexit should be is deeply unpopular.
I never said I had the answer to it. Nobody knows what it is in total or what it looks like because it has never been defined apart from an ultimate goal of one thing, the UK leaving the EU. I merely stated that there would be very serious repercussions and social unrest if they just decided that they were going to withdraw article 50, a statement which you disputed.
I think your sarcasm detector was off when I replied to you, pal.
But there really is nothing to say that any repercussions or social unrest would be any worse if Article 50 was withdrawn or there was a second referendum, than if Brexit goes ahead, particularly in a no deal scenario. The high likelihood is that the “repercussions” and any social unrest would be worse under any Brexit scenario, but particularly a no deal.
The Brexiteers have such sunken costs in the whole charade that if there is a Brexit, they’ll blame everybody else except themselves when it all goes tits up. And it leaves half the country feeling like they’ve been abandoned and thrown on the scrapheap because of the imperial delusions of little Englanders.
There is no good outcome, only a least worst one.
It’s funny how a 2nd vote, whatever you choose to call it, has the Brexiteers/right-wing/PULs warning about social unrest and the denial of democracy.
Meanwhile, when commentators put forward the view that a no deal or hard border would encourage a border poll the very same brexiteers/right-wing/PULs are warning about social unrest in the North if a border poll, not only was held, but even more so if the result was in favour of re-unification.
Selective democracy rules.
Leo giving it bangs out in Davos.
Leo the Langer
You forgot to add lover !
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I’ll pass on that
Ignore him… he only sounds like a poor man’s Azelia Banks now.
Ref-Azelia Banks, great piece on twitter ,“paddy Gangsta”( Ross Brown - comedian) tore the tramp to shreds in a v funny rap
Amidst all the talk of the UK economy being hit by Brexit, the facts don’t seem to back to the doom and gloom merchants. While it’s true economic growth has slowed in the UK since 2016, that’s down from a growth rate where the UK was leading the G7, let alone the EU. Of much greater concern for the EU is the largest economies are now in recession territory, data from Germany and France has been poor in Q3/Q4 2018. Most economists are predicting the EU will officially be in recession (2 quarters of negative growth) later this year.
What matters to most people, or ordinary people as they are described, is jobs and wages. The labor market has strengthened significantly in the UK since the referendum, and the growth is in full time jobs. The UK has an unemployment rate of 4%, Ireland is 5%, France is 9%, Italy is 11% and Spain is 15%. Of the larger countries, only Germany is better than the UK at 3.5%.
Only @Tassotti, our man on the ground, seems to have his finger on the pulse here.
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The UK has good job figures but the weakness of sterling has made goods more expensive. The level of investment has also fallen. The results of that won’t be felt for a while.
Wage growth is good but is only a one off so far and likely is a catch up on public selector wages.
Overall it is a completely unnecessary self inflicted damage to the UK economy.
The reporting in Ireland is shocking I find. Hysterical pro European garbage along with a sense of wanting badly to see the UK suffer. Pure gombeenism actually
Brought about by politicians who are aloof and out of touch with their constituents. Perhaps Brexit woke them up, time will tell.
The economic and investment reality though is that the UK and Ireland represent preferred European locations for investment for countries outside the EU, for a multitude of reasons (labor laws, taxation, language, etc.). In a global context the US is a $20T economy, China is $14T and Japan is $5T, the largest EU economy Germany is $4T. Access to the single market on favorable terms seems to be the central question, but there are several models that already work, Norway, Switzerland, or Canada where 98% of products are duty free.
Just because one might not agree with it doesn’t necessarily means it’s garbage.
We all have opinions and some people take them on board. You won’t have that to worry about though.
The UK and Ireland are both in the EU, bro.
You misread that, businesses from outside the EU (US, China, etc) prefer to set up shop in the UK and Ireland, for a multitude of reasons. Access to the single market is key though.
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Not true. The anti Europe sentiment in the UK was fermented by politicians for many years.
It goes back to this;
The UK were then humiliated by DeGaulle when they tried to join.
The Left of the likes of Tony Benn (and Corbyn has inheirited that tradition, though he is Benn lite) and the right wing types like Enoch Powell were resolutely against Europe. The Labour Party were fighting on Europe into the 80s. Thatcher did not become anti Europe until she was embarrassed by them.
Anti European sentiment has been alive and well in the UK for decades and politicians were to the fore of that.
Comparing the UK to most economies is pointless. Singapore is the big one at the moment, as it is the wet dream of the likes of Daniel Hannan. This ignores so many things about the UK’s size, it’s international obligations and what it is good at. Norway and Switzerland are basically pointless comparisons and in any event, there is no point in the UK going for either of those options other than for damage limitation. Norway can sit back and take on laws and regulations as they are a small nation with huge natural resources and specific niche industries. The UK is a medium sized nation with a broad economy where to be a rule taker in the EEA would be losing control, not taking it back.
The point on all of this is that the UK had motored on from the 1980s after the industrial missteps from the 1950s to the 1970s. It is self inflicted stupidity. You can’t just pluck the German economy out of the EU in terms of size. I know you think the EU will collapse (we’ve been waiting for years and endless predictions for that to happen) but it is still there and that is what you are negotiating with. That’s what made Liam Fox and David Davis look like complete morons in their prediction about the post Brexit landscape.
In terms of political failure, yes we can talk about immigration but as been pointed out time and time again the UK could not pay for their state without them. EU immigrants cost far less than no EU ones and generally are a good culture fit in the UK. The honest position would be to tell pensioners that their pensions would collapse without Frederick working in the City’s taxes or Vladimir the plumber’s ones. Michael Gove essentially admitted this, that he would be swapping EU immigrants for Ukrainian ones.
The EU will sell us down the swanie in a shot. We need a good Deal for the UK as it will be a good deal for us.
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