[quote=âRockoâ]Has anyone heard Newstalkâs editorial on the Budget yet?
They seem to be running it on the hour - heard the very start of it at lunch but switched it off cos I was entering my luncheon venue and also didnât really feel like Denis OâBrien lecturing to me about the country. The start was horribly like a desparate candidate on the Apprentice though - a great plea about what a nation of hard workers we are if we could only work together⌠anyone hear what came next?
Newstalk have some of the better radio shows IMO. Off the Ball is easily the best sports show on Irish radio and itâs better than anything 5Live can produce either. I do like Eamonn Keane at lunchtime too. But those clowns in the morning and Hook in the evening are just idiots. And they appear to be moving more and more in that direction as a station.[/quote]
[quote=âSHANNONSIDER**â]I had a big spiel written agreeing with that but Iâve binned it as yeâve heard it all before. Suffice to say, this country is getting what it truly deserves. All the condemning of the banks and the government and the developers isnât worth a hat of crabs. We the people could have cried stop at any moment by electing people capable of governing us properly. Instead we elected strokers and chancers, the class dunce and the local spiv auctioneer.
As regards Britain, itâs in a mess in alot of ways but have you ever listened to the level of debate in the House of Commons and then compared it to the debate in our own house? Has the clarity and cogent arguing back and forth in the House of Commons, whatever the topic, ever filled you with deep shame at the limited individuals we have elected to our own house? It certainly has shamed me. When an MP is caught doing the wrong thing at least they get a call from their boss telling them to sling their hook. A TD can rely on unwavering support from not only his own party, but the chancers across the floor who are at the same Del Boy tricks themselves.
Wasnât Wolfe Tone an awful fool to die for this nation of knaves? Collins too, Boland shot by his own, Brugha, Eoghan Rua should have stayed on the continent, why did they even care about this wretched land where all the patriots are already dead?[/quote]
Empty vessels make the most noise too SS. Ireland has never gone and invaded another country making up evidence as it went along. Parts of the UK are slums of the highest order. If we are looking for someone to model a future Ireland on it sure as hell shouldnt be the UK.
[quote=âRockoâ]Has anyone heard Newstalkâs editorial on the Budget yet?
They seem to be running it on the hour - heard the very start of it at lunch but switched it off cos I was entering my luncheon venue and also didnât really feel like Denis OâBrien lecturing to me about the country. The start was horribly like a desparate candidate on the Apprentice though - a great plea about what a nation of hard workers we are if we could only work together⌠anyone hear what came next?
Newstalk have some of the better radio shows IMO. Off the Ball is easily the best sports show on Irish radio and itâs better than anything 5Live can produce either. I do like Eamonn Keane at lunchtime too. But those clowns in the morning and Hook in the evening are just idiots. And they appear to be moving more and more in that direction as a station.[/quote]
They had Brian Dowling and some Irish bint who was on the UK apprentice standing in for Moncrieff yesterday I believe, disgraceful stuff.
Off The Ball is unparalleled, just a pity they donât podcast more of their stuff.
[quote=âKIB manâ]Your a second year Commerce student in NUIG. We get it.
Some absolute shite being peddled here. Cut social welfare and blame the public sector for the country being bankrupt. Any of you bufoons heard of NAMA and why it was needed to be brought in. Whenever you read of some dole bird being outed in some IBEC sponsored shitrag it is really a drop in the ocean compared to the damage that reckless trading by Fitzpatrick, Fingleton etc has caused the country and will force a generation to emigrate. Pensions that we are virtually paying for. It was the taxpayer that had to jump in to save private institutions dont forget or ever forget that.
This recession is an opportunity to reform the public sector, health service and social welfare. A time to make the right decisions but this needs innovative strategic long term thinking. Try and give the nation some hope. Invest in a national broadband infrastructure for example. But I see just blanket cuts. This is very dispiriting I must say.[/quote]
[quote=âmyboyblueâ]They had Brian Dowling and some Irish bint who was on the UK apprentice standing in for Moncrieff yesterday I believe, disgraceful stuff.
Off The Ball is unparalleled, just a pity they donât podcast more of their stuff.[/quote]
This country needs to reevaluate what it wants to be. Seriously the recession can be a great time to push through necessary reform. Teachers in this country start on around 33k minimum. That is well in excess of what a private sector graduate can expect at the moment. Drop it to 23k and watch a zero decrease in applicants for places in teaching courses next year. Update the payscale based on that for all new starters offering early retirement for those 55 years plus +. This would bring about major cost savings in a very short time.
People bitch about Mary Harney as Health minister but at least she had the balls to actually go for the job. Our current Taoiseach ran out of it dont forget. Early on this year she put it up to the pharmacies. Took a bit of heat but held on and won the reforms. Why not take on the doctors now? Where they going to go - nowhere. Open up medicine places big time, has already started they tried to cause a bit of hassle but fuck them.
Also its time that we started offering CAO places on what our economy actually needs right now. Was talking to an exec in Boston Scientific last week. Reckons the level of expertise in medical devices in Galway is second to none in the world. That all kicked off really when Digital left when everyone thought Galway was fucked bit, like Limerick now, but turned out to be the best thing that ever happened. NUIG should have a world class device research centre attached with courses offered linked to it. Cork similar for Pharmaceuticals etc. Ireland does not need to have 250 civil engineering grads each year at the moment so lets start investing in Science and Maths properly and pay those teachers a bit more if necessary.
Ireland will never be a country to attract low cost manufacturing again so fuck it let it go. Fuck Dell, company is up the shitter anyway. They will go to Poland, 5 years time go to China. Iâd recommend actually increasing the corporation tax for foreign owned manufacturing based MNCâs to 15%. If they are attracted to Ireland solely on the basis of tax purposes they are probably off anyway. Letâs test their loyalty.
[quote=âKIB manâ]your in awe of me. I get it but :guns:
This country needs to reevaluate what it wants to be. Seriously the recession can be a great time to push through necessary reform. Teachers in this country start on around 33k minimum. That is well in excess of what a private sector graduate can expect at the moment. Drop it to 23k and watch a zero decrease in applicants for places in teaching courses next year. Update the payscale based on that for all new starters offering early retirement for those 55 years plus +. This would bring about major cost savings in a very short time.
People bitch about Mary Harney as Health minister but at least she had the balls to actually go for the job. Our current Taoiseach ran out of it dont forget. Early on this year she put it up to the pharmacies. Took a bit of heat but held on and won the reforms. Why not take on the doctors now? Where they going to go - nowhere. Open up medicine places big time, has already started they tried to cause a bit of hassle but fuck them.
Also its time that we started offering CAO places on what our economy actually needs right now. Was talking to an exec in Boston Scientific last week. Reckons the level of expertise in medical devices in Galway is second to none in the world. That all kicked off really when Digital left when everyone thought Galway was fucked bit, like Limerick now, but turned out to be the best thing that ever happened. NUIG should have a world class device research centre attached with courses offered linked to it. Cork similar for Pharmaceuticals etc. Ireland does not need to have 250 civil engineering grads each year at the moment so lets start investing in Science and Maths properly and pay those teachers a bit more if necessary.
Ireland will never be a country to attract low cost manufacturing again so fuck it let it go. Fuck Dell, company is up the shitter anyway. They will go to Poland, 5 years time go to China. Iâd recommend actually increasing the corporation tax for foreign owned manufacturing based MNCâs to 15%. If they are attracted to Ireland solely on the basis of tax purposes they are probably off anyway. Letâs test their loyalty.[/quote]
The Rock 67 is seething that he cant get one over KIB - Great stuff by the Clare man
the two of them are well matched but in most debates the Clare man always seems to get the edge - its never a facile victory for the Clare native but its a victory nonetheless
Agree with alot of what you have said KIB but decreasing pay for primary teachers isnât what is required. Education has been totally underfunded in Ireland and primary sector in particular has been disgracefully left bedind in all years of Celtic Tiger etc. Despite this Irish children perform well against international standards and one of the main reasons for this is the quality of teaching. Reducing pay for teachers wonât help to attract the best people to the job which is what is needed now more than ever imo
[quote=âKIB manâ]your in awe of me. I get it but :guns:
This country needs to reevaluate what it wants to be. Seriously the recession can be a great time to push through necessary reform. Teachers in this country start on around 33k minimum. That is well in excess of what a private sector graduate can expect at the moment. Drop it to 23k and watch a zero decrease in applicants for places in teaching courses next year. Update the payscale based on that for all new starters offering early retirement for those 55 years plus +. This would bring about major cost savings in a very short time.
People bitch about Mary Harney as Health minister but at least she had the balls to actually go for the job. Our current Taoiseach ran out of it dont forget. Early on this year she put it up to the pharmacies. Took a bit of heat but held on and won the reforms. Why not take on the doctors now? Where they going to go - nowhere. Open up medicine places big time, has already started they tried to cause a bit of hassle but fuck them.
Also its time that we started offering CAO places on what our economy actually needs right now. Was talking to an exec in Boston Scientific last week. Reckons the level of expertise in medical devices in Galway is second to none in the world. That all kicked off really when Digital left when everyone thought Galway was fucked bit, like Limerick now, but turned out to be the best thing that ever happened. NUIG should have a world class device research centre attached with courses offered linked to it. Cork similar for Pharmaceuticals etc. Ireland does not need to have 250 civil engineering grads each year at the moment so lets start investing in Science and Maths properly and pay those teachers a bit more if necessary.
Ireland will never be a country to attract low cost manufacturing again so fuck it let it go. Fuck Dell, company is up the shitter anyway. They will go to Poland, 5 years time go to China. Iâd recommend actually increasing the corporation tax for foreign owned manufacturing based MNCâs to 15%. If they are attracted to Ireland solely on the basis of tax purposes they are probably off anyway. Letâs test their loyalty.[/quote]
test the loyalty of private companies whoâs main aim is profit??..you want to get rid of any teacher who has a wealth of experience and knowledge (not to mention 30 years + of proven dedication) for someone who never wanted to be a teacher in the first place but will take it now there are no other jobs going??..would you not question their commitment to the job?..what is a graduate wage for fuck sake??..does it not depend on what you graduate in??..utter bollox to compare it to a teacherâŚwhy not compare a teacher to a teacher in a private collegeâŚyouâll see the latter they get paid moreâŚ
you want to restructure the country based on a chinwag to some scientific execâŚ
33k is too much in the current market. People go into teaching more so for the holidays than the money imo. There is a surplus of newly qualfied teachers at the moment too. Basic supply and demand there. Irish teachers have it so much more handier than counterparts elsewhere. But of course these cutbacks will now affect class sizes and the quality of teaching. Personally dont think at the moment that cutting starting teacher salary by 10k would affect the quality of teachers being produced. Licence given to Hibernia for private secondary teaching should be revoked immediately.
In education, would strongly advocate the complete withdrawal of organised religion from all State schools. One thing I will never forgive Bertie Ahern and his patsy Michael Woods for was the shameful Church/State deal for abuse payments a few years back. Was a chance to make Ireland a more secular society.
[quote=âscumpotâ]test the loyalty of private companies whoâs main aim is profit??..you want to get rid of any teacher who has a wealth of experience and knowledge (not to mention 30 years + of proven dedication) for someone who never wanted to be a teacher in the first place but will take it now there are no other jobs going??..would you not question their commitment to the job?..what is a graduate wage for fuck sake??..does it not depend on what you graduate in??..utter bollox to compare it to a teacherâŚwhy not compare a teacher to a teacher in a private collegeâŚyouâll see the latter they get paid moreâŚ
you want to restructure the country based on a chinwag to some scientific execâŚ:D[/quote]
No not every teacher offer early retirement though. Personally dont believe its healthy for any individual to be in the same career for over 30 years anyway and those that are recently qualified are probably in a better place to educate the kids of today. Maybe those applying today like the work/life balance or have a genuine vocation. Who knows? Numbers applying for teaching courses were climbing before the recession anyway. We have a vast surplus of teachers so starting salary is where I would start. Comparing to a teacher in a private college is bollox alright. Maybe 23k is too little, what is the average industrial wage? 25k. That will do.
[quote=âBenSherminâ]So a fully qualified 40 year old with a wife and kids and a mortgage should have their dole cut so they can attend a course to get qualifications even though they are already qualified? What a fucking idiotic statement!
The majority of under 23 year olds in this country are living at home and most of their dole payment is actually disposable income, they have no initiative to pay for college courses so itâs a good idea for the government to force them into education. It doesnât work across the board though.
Any reduction in dole payments should be met with a reduction in VAT to keep people above the poverty line.[/quote]
would be more likely the exception rather than the rule, and also whatâs the problem ith cross skilling and upskilling.
are you saying just because someone is 40 and qualified that they shouldânt try to better themselves and should take handouts for nothing and await the inevitable ?
thatâs fair shortsighted by you minister, and i would generally be in agreement with you on most things
[quote=âartfoleyâ]would be more likely the exception rather than the rule, and also whatâs the problem ith cross skilling and upskilling.
are you saying just because someone is 40 and qualified that they shouldânt try to better themselves and should take handouts for nothing and await the inevitable ?
thatâs fair shortsighted by you minister, and i would generally be in agreement with you on most things[/quote]
The problem with that statement is that no one gives a flying fuck what a baldy brit has to say:rolleyes:
[quote=âKIB manâ]33k is too much in the current market. People go into teaching more so for the holidays than the money imo. There is a surplus of newly qualfied teachers at the moment too. Basic supply and demand there. Irish teachers have it so much more handier than counterparts elsewhere. But of course these cutbacks will now affect class sizes and the quality of teaching. Personally dont think at the moment that cutting starting teacher salary by 10k would affect the quality of teachers being produced. Licence given to Hibernia for private secondary teaching should be revoked immediately.
In education, would strongly advocate the complete withdrawal of organised religion from all State schools. One thing I will never forgive Bertie Ahern and his patsy Michael Woods for was the shameful Church/State deal for abuse payments a few years back. Was a chance to make Ireland a more secular society.[/quote]
Ah come off it KIB there is no way that holidays play that big a role in career choice of many. School population in 26 counties is growing massively so many more teachers will be required even if class sizes remain second highest in EU. I have no doubt that cutting salary by 10k would cut quality of teacher recruited especially considering the poor increases we get later on in our careers comparable to other sectors. Teachers have played massive role in success of our primary sector and to even devalue proffession even a little more would be a massive mistake and one that state would pay many times for in the long run. Qualifications needed to be a primary teacher along with massive effort required in college mean it has to be towards the top end of pay scale for graduates at least initially. Would be folly to get rid of experienced teachers too. While you may say its not healthy being in same classroom for thirty years this isnât the case for vast majority of teachers. Massive difference between teaching four years old junior infants to sixth class twelve year olds or doing resource/learning support. Challenges a teacher faces from year to year can vary greatly so vital that those with experience are kept on as much as possible to provide knowledge/assistance considering massive growth in the sector in the coming years.
Starting a teacher on 23k would be a total joke imo. The responsible nature of the job, ie unlike a nurse etc you are fired straight in at the deep end with the full responsibility of the job from day one, would make this extremely unfair.
Even with increments of a grand a year it would take someone around ten years to make it to the average industrial wage of around 35k (I think). Surely you canât think thatâs reasonable!
