Bundesliga Thread

Schalke and Stuttgart both dropped points again yesterday and Friday (two draws) leaving the door open for Bayern today. Very surpirsed they only drew. Watched the first half in Fraser’s and they were destroying Bremen - just shows you how sometimes inferior teams can grab a result.

At the bottom BocHUN had a decent win over Dortmund with Bielefeld, Cottbus and Frankfurt dropping points. It’s unbelievably tight at the bottom of the Bundesliga but I reckon Cottbus, Bielefeld and Munchengladbach will go down.

Bayern really were destroying Bremen so can’t really believe they got a point.

Frazer’s is a cracking pub. We’re standing there pi$$ed off at the Celtic result and next thing we turn around and there’s 40 or 50 Italians after arriving for the Milan derby.

They go mental watching it and as soon as it’s over there’s a huge crowd of Germans in for the Bayern-Bremen game.

All the time the Blarney Pilgrims are belting out the rebel songs upstairs.

Still going to have a little bet on Bayern for the Champions League because of their current form, players like Podolski and Hargreaves coming back from injury and the Hitzfeld factor.

Schalke steady the ship on a good weekend for nil-nil perverts
The football was grim but a four-way scramble for the title has been reduced to two after Bayern gave up the ghost.
Raphael HonigsteinMarch 19, 2007 11:51 AM
We know they don’t really do nightclubs or flat-shares, but if the Danish beer company who sponsor Liverpool did a football league, wouldn’t it be modelled on the Bundesliga? A league of moderate ticket-prices, comfortable stadiums with terraces and attendance figures dwarfed only by the NFL. Free TV highlights at six o’clock on Saturdays. Pay TV for a tenner a month. Players and managers who will think twice about the car they drive to training so as not to upset their fan base and who see it as they their civic duty to talk to the media before and after matches. A competition so close that this week’s Uefa Cup contenders are next week’s relegation battlers and vice versa. Oh, and more goals on average than any of the big leagues in the last five years - at 2.86, a cool 10% more than the Premier League. What’s not to like?

Well, Matchday 26 for starters. Dull, uninspired, slow, unwatchable: it sucked worse than Gigli. Only Hamburg manager and self-confessed blank sheet-fetishist Huub “Die Null muss stehen” Stevens will have enjoyed the weekend’s dire fare: with 10 out of 18 teams failing to score there were more zeroes than an accountants convention in Castrop-Rauxel. What goals there were barely counted. Leverkusen’s future Liverpool bench-warmer Andriy Voronin had a shot deflected into Gladbach’s goal; the Foals will soon have to be put down and a lucrative career as a Charlie Chaplin impersonator must await their Dutch manager Jos Luhukay.

At the other end of the table, Schalke’s defender Mladen Krstajic poked one in after an unseemly Sunday league scramble in the Stuttgart box to register a vital win and steady the leaders’ nerves. The visitors from Svabia had actually been the better team for most of 90 terse minutes. Schalke once again looked overawed by the occasion and were lucky that Stuttgart didn’t have Mario Gomez available up front, and only hit the post when Thomas “Der Hammer” Hitzlsperger lived up to his nickname. At least the 1-0 win has at last transformed the four-way fight for the title into a straightforward two-horse race. Only Werder Bremen kept up with the Royal Blues. Their laboured 2-0 over Mainz saw the redemption of Croatian midfielder Jurica Vranjes. Roundly booed the week before for his un-Werderlike lack of technique, he turned hero by scoring the opener. Diego got the second.

Bayern, on the other hand, are definitely out of it after their eighth defeat of the season. It took an absolute wonder goal by Eintracht Frankfurt midfielder Christoph Preu to defeat them at the Commerzbank-Arena, the venue of England’s, er, magnificent win against Paraguay in the World Cup. Yes, they might have had two penalties and a few decent chances. But once again the lack of creativity in the squad was cruelly exposed. The board have now woken up to this and Ottmar Hitzfeld, signed up for another year, will be given the biggest transfer budget in the league’s history this summer, maybe as much as 50 million euros.

In the meantime, however, there is the “Pinkelaffre” (Bild), a sort of “urinalgate” to deal with: Uefa has charged Lucio and Oliver Kahn with “inappropriate behaviour” after both allegedly insulted an official during the routine doping checks after the Real Madrid game. The way Bayern tell it, the players had trouble providing the necessary sample. When Kahn finally produced after two hours, the official asked for a repeat performance because he hadn’t witnessed the act. Cue a (verbal) eruption from “Vul-Kahn” and the Brazilian.

Dortmund have much more pressing problems. At the Signal Iduna Park, the match against Nrnberg finished goalless but 81,000 fans were reasonably happy. The draw made for a nice change after manager Jrgen Rber’s disastrous run of six defeats in eight games in 2007. After last week’s 2-0 capitulation in Bochum, dozens of fans opted for a tried and trusted exercise in peaceful, direct democracy: they blocked the team bus’s departure and forced the players to dismount and explain their poor show. Rber resigned and later told of numerous rifts and a lack of professionalism in the dressing room. He had often had “a shit feeling”, he explained and wished he had been more authoritarian with the players. In their wisdom, the Borussia board have now brought in Thomas Doll, the “softest” of all Bundesliga managers, to stave off relegation.

Doll was always the players’ friend in Hamburg, when they successfully battled against going down in 2005, when they nearly won the league in 2006 and also when they collapsed this season. The long-suffering Dortmund faithful hope that “Dolly” can repeat the first two parts of that trick; he was given a hero’s welcome on Saturday. Dortmund should improve under his guidance. But first, there’s a two-week break to contend with. Which is probably a good thing, too.

Results: Hertha Berlin 0-1 Energie Cottbus, Hannover 0-0 Hamburg, Schalke 1-0 Stuttgart, Eintracht Frankfurt 1-0 Bayern Munich, Aachen 2-0 Arminia Bielefeld, Borussia Dortmund 0-0 Nurnberg, Wolfsburg 3-1 Bochum, Werder Bremen 2-0 Mainz, Bayer Leverkusen 1-0 Borussia Moenchengladbach.

This is shaping up to be a great finish.

Bayern won 2-0 at home to Schalke (bad news for Celtic but I think at this stage we can probably assume they’ll get third place at least on form) closing the gap between them and the leaders to 6 points.

Bremen in second only drew nil all at Cottbus. Stuttgart won 3-1 at home to Aachen which leaves

Schalke on 53
Bremen on 51
Stuttgart on 49
Bayern on 47

If Hitzfeld can win a Bundesliga this season then he truly is a miracle worker.

At the bottom Dortmund lost at Bielefeld. They could very well be relegated (second bottom at the moment). It’s possible that next season Dortmund and Gladbach could both be in the 2. Bundesliga with Koln which would mean 3 of the top 20 supported clubs in Europe would be playing in the 2. Bundesliga.

Is it? Would love to see that.

Are St Pauli still on course for promotion?

The Hippy supports BocHUN

I read on the web yesterday that Kahn turned around and boxed a Schalke striker in the head after he was nudged when going up to catch a corner. The ref only booked him and didn’t award a penalty either. Could be a huge result for them.

Bremen had a 3-1 win at home to Aachen last night and Stuttgart beat Bayern 2-0 today.

Means Schalke are top on 62 points, then Bremen on 60 points, Stuttgart on 58 and Bayern on 53.

Bayern struggling to qualify for the CL with 4 games left. Good for Celtic’s seeding.

Cracking goal from Diego to make it 3-1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeFENdQq0Z4

This is the mother of all relegation battles at the bottom of the Bundesliga. Four games to go and while Moenchenglabach look doomed in 18th place everyone else from second last right up to 7th in the table is in trouble. 3 teams are relegated:

Hertha Berlin -6 38
Cottbus -6 38
Hanr 96 -7 38
Hamburg 2 36
VFL Bochum -6 36
Wolfsburg -4 35
Dortmund -7 35
Frankfurt -14 34
Bielefeld -5 33
Aachen -12 33
Mainz -20 31
M’gladbach -15 25

Big day here yesterday. Schalke lost 2-0 at Dortund with Celtic target Alexander Frei getting one of the goals. Stuttgart came from behind twice to win 3-2 at Bochum and Werder Bremen lost 2-1 at home to Eintracht Frankfurt. It’s now Stuttgart 67, Schalke 65 and Bremen 63 with one game left.

Yeah big result against Schalke in the Rhein-Ruhr derby. Delighted to see Schalke blow it - always had a strong dislike for them, despite living a couple of miles from their stadium for a year.

Supporting football teams in Germany seems like the business. 4EUR for match tickets! Over 61k in Schalke’s stadium watching the game on big screens down the road in article. Excellent article:

Germany’s most popular team, Schalke, may have blown the chance to end their 49-year title drought.
Anna Kessel
May 13, 2007 12:56 AM

Imagine a football fan’s utopia, where supporters decide ticket prices and who sits on the board; where players travel hundreds of miles to visit their fans and mingle with them at training; where supporters debate the finances of the club with the chairman and contribute to the design of their stadium. Such a club does exist. They are called Schalke 04 and they did not deserve to go through the agonies they suffered yesterday, on an afternoon of gut-wrenching, unbearable tension in the Bundesliga

Schalke are the most popular club in Germany. Yesterday afternoon, their stadium in Gelsenkirchen was full with 61,780 fans - for an away game. Schalke played at nearby Dortmund, where 20,000 of the 83,000 full house were in the blue-and-white away end. Add the two crowds together and it is just short of the European record for a club game, 146,433, though they all packed into a single stadium, Hampden Park, for the 1937 Scottish Cup final between Celtic and Aberdeen.

While the Premiership has been exciting this season, it has also been predictable: anyone could have named the top four before the big kick-off last August. Germany could not have provided a greater contrast. Bayern Munich, the Manchester United of the Bundesliga, cannot qualify for the Champions League and, going into yesterday’s penultimate round of matches (Saturday-afternoon kick-offs, by the way), only Schalke, Stuttgart and Bremen could win it. The three German teams who have played Champions League finals in the past 10 years, Bayern, Dortmund and Leverkusen, are nowhere. This was something like Newcastle, Tottenham and Aston Villa battling it out for the championship and Schalke, the German Newcastle, were favourites. Until yesterday. Now, even if they win their last game, they are unlikely to overtake new leaders Stuttgart, who were twice behind, but won at Bochum. Bremen, beaten by Frankfurt, are out of it.

What made it worse to bear was that, at one time, both Stuttgart and Bremen were losing, while Schalke were having the better of it against the local rivals they refuse to call by their real name, referring to them derogatively as Zecke (mosquito). They finished 2-0 losers and what might have been the biggest party in world football this season is on hold.

While there is still a chance, Schalke fans will travel from all over Germany to watch the last game at home to Bielefeld. Gelsenkirchen is bracing itself for the invasion - all hotel rooms are booked and the fire brigade have been refused leave. If Schalke do win the championship - they must win handsomely and hope Stuttgart drop points - it will be the biggest celebration in the town since 1958, the last time they won the title. Forty-nine years and three stadiums later, they are still waiting.

Two months ago, it had all looked so certain when Schalke were seven points clear. Then fans had brought the replica trophy plates to the training ground for autographs. But three defeats on the trot slashed their lead and now it is out of their hands.

Schalke have been here before. In 2001, it took a goal in the fourth minute of injury time by Bayern Munich away to Hamburg to snatch the title from their grasp. The memory still hurts. That day, a TV interviewer informed them they had won and ecstatic players began to celebrate. The images were beamed across Germany. Seconds later, they learned of the Bayern goal. To this day, Schalke are mocked for those celebrations, the video loop repeated on the sports channels.

Schalke, named after a district of Gelsenkirchen, a former coal-mining town, are often compared to Newcastle United. Twinned towns, they share an industrial history, a huge fanbase and are perennial underachievers. They also share a friendship of sorts. Back in 1999, a fan exchange took place. Schalke’s representative, Dirk Martensen, set off for the Toon - knitted beer can holder around his neck, wrists decked in blue-and-white scarves - to meet Newcastle chairman Freddy Shepherd. The two discussed ticket prices: at that time Schalke charged about 3 for the cheapest ticket. ‘Oh you won’t win anything charging that,’ said Shepherd. ‘Our fans expect the best players.’ Martensen smiled sagely and said, ‘We won the Uefa Cup two years ago, what have you won?’

Schalke are built on fan power, a working-class identity that dictates the ethos of the club - hard graft and low wages. Former manager Rudi Assauer used to say: ‘How can we expect unemployed fans to pay high ticket prices to subsidise high-earning players?’

With unemployment at 20 per cent locally, the club are the backbone of the community. Schalke membership gets every fan discounts in local supermarkets. The Dachverband (national supporters club) in the centre of town employs 25 staff to sell everything from bomber jackets to fair-trade coffee and concert tickets. Until last year’s World Cup, they even ran the tourist office.

Club secretary Peter Peters is hands-on with the fans. An earnest and passionate man, he spent more than 50 hours negotiating a rise in ticket prices for this season. Eventually 4 (2.70) was agreed, but to be split over two seasons. Peters is philosophical when it comes to quibbling over euros. ‘The fans say we only have success because they are here and they create this fantastic atmosphere. It’s important. It’s not like a jeans shop where people can just go somewhere else. Schalke is their life.’

Some years ago, Peters tried raising prices in a small part of the stadium without consultation. ‘It was only 700 seats, but we did not discuss it with the supporters and they boycotted the match. For them it wasn’t the price, they just wanted to feel they can decide.’

Schalke fan Stuart Dykes, originally from Mansfield, says he feels more at home in football here than he can in England. Dykes swapped the red of Manchester United for Royal Blue and has spent the past 20 years living in Germany and supporting Schalke. ‘Here with Schalke, I feel I have a voice,’ he says.

Such is the power of the supporters they even make it into the dressing room. Last November, fans penned an open letter to the team calling for more passion on the pitch. With Schalke, it does not matter if you win or lose, you just have to try. Coach Mirko Slomka read the letter to his players. At the next home game, against Bayern Munich, as if to underline their point, the fans refused to cheer for the first 19 minutes and four seconds of the game (1904, the year Schalke started). Peter Lovenkrands put Schalke ahead and was met by silence. As the clock crept towards 19 minutes a slow clap began. Around the stadium it grew in volume. Just as the protest neared its end a roar began and Leban Kobiashvili took possession of the ball and lashed it into the top corner for a second goal. The stadium erupted. Schalke fans say they still get goosebumps thinking about it. At the players’ request, the team appeared on the pitch holding a message for the fans. It read: ‘We are Schalke, we are passion.’ But there is fan culture and then there is cold hard cash. And this year Schalke came into an unprecedented amount of money.

An estimated 125m, five-year sponsorship deal with Russian energy company Gazprom gave the club the biggest sponsorship deal in German football history. Auditing firm Deloitte lists Schalke fourteenth in the list of biggest football revenues in the world.

Josef Schusenberg, who next month takes over as chairman and who masterminded the deal, says the cash will help Schalke extend internationally. ‘It’s very important for us. In Germany we cannot do like in England. Chelsea with Abramovich, Liverpool and the Americans, our club belongs to no one. We are like David and Goliath against them. First we go to Russia to install fan shops, then in 2008 we begin expanding to the Far East.’

With a background in finance, Schnusenberg will be different to the outgoing chairman Gerhard Rehberg, who was a coalminer and former mayor of Gelsenkirchen. Schnusenberg says the fans love him - ‘Sport is first, money is second’ - but many supporters are worried about where Gazprom’s influence might take the club.

Gazprom attempted to smooth relations by distributing 10,000 free Schalke flags to fans, but at the next game the ultras unveiled a message for the company: ‘Tradition cannot be bought’.

Among the left-wing group that produces the official Schalke fanzine, Unser Vater, there is concern about the deal. ‘Show me a large company that doesn’t have dirty money,’ says Dr Susanne Franke, chair of the Schalke Fan Initiative. ‘We were more comfortable with brewery sponsors. Schalke is our religion, beer is our holy water.’ Happy hour on match day begins at 10am.

Plenty of fans agree. Markko, a taxi driver who is originally from Finland, has supported Schalke home and away for 35 years and wears his own T-shirts: ‘Not all Schalke fans are psychopaths, but I am,’ is a particular favourite. ‘We don’t know where this deal will take us,’ says Markko. ‘What will Gazprom expect from us? What happens when they leave? My great-grandmother used to say, “A Russian is a Russian even when you boil him in butter.” She meant those in power, of course, not the man in the street.’

For new players, all this fan culture is disorientating. Peter Lovenkrands signed from Rangers last summer and it has taken him time to settle in to the Schalke way of life. ‘Here, everybody every day is Schalke. It’s crazy,’ he says. ‘If we win the league they are estimating one million fans will come to Gelsenkirchen to celebrate.’ The club have always been popular and film fans may recall that the crew in Das Boot, the classic film about a U-boat, were all Schalke fans. So was the previous Pope, John Paul II.

Lovenkrands has had to get used to putting the fans first. Supporters attend training here and sit alongside players in their club restaurant. Every year, the players are sent out to visit fan groups across the country - there are 850 in total - and Lovenkrands was sent to Leipzig, four hours’ drive away. ‘I couldn’t believe it, every player had to go somewhere, some went as far as Munich. We drove to Leipzig and met 100 fans who gave me the key to their town.’

At the AGM, held in the stadium at the beginning of the season, Lovenkrands had another surprise. ‘I thought they were having a wee party. But there was the board debating with the fans about the finances of the club. Then they gave out medals to long-standing supporters of 50 and 60 years, and had a minute’s silence for the fans who had died that year. It’s a very special club here.’

Lovenkrands has been injured for the past eight weeks, forced to watch from the sidelines as his team let their lead slip. Even as a newcomer, he has a sense of how important this title challenge has been for Schalke. ‘The kitmen and everyone here talk about how long it’s been. The backroom staff and Gerald Asamoah, the only player remaining from that 2001 team, remember that game when they lost in the last minute. It haunts them still.’

In truth, they never looked like champions yesterday. Now they look sure to have another late-season failure to haunt them.

Stuttgart won the title yesterday, winning 2-1 after initially falling behind in the first 10 minutes. They were under a lot of pressure as Schalke won 2-0 and were ahead from early on. Bremen finished third and Bayern Munich miss out on Champions League football next season after coming 4th. Not sure whether Hitzfeld is staying there next season or not.

Highlights of Stuttgart game below. What a goal from Hitzelsperger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7NBKvY5BU0

Some goal alright.

Klose has signed for Bayern Munich today - Toni, Klose, Ribery are three top drawer signings for Bayern. They should walk the UEFA Cup with that side.

This signing had an air of inevitability about it. I’ve often wondered why this didn’t happen sooner

Flano wrote:

This signing had an air of inevitability about it. I’ve often wondered why this didn’t happen sooner

Well he’s only at Werder Bremen a couple of seasons. Nobody took a punt on him after WC 2002 and Bremen saw their chance to buy him a few years ago. Once he put in the same level of performance in WC 2006 (though it has to be said he was sensational in domestic football that season too) it was inevitable bigger clubs would come knocking. I think Bayern see it as an insult to them if they’re outbid for the best of the Bundesliga.

therock67 wrote:

Flano wrote:

[quote]This signing had an air of inevitability about it. I’ve often wondered why this didn’t happen sooner

Well he’s only at Werder Bremen a couple of seasons. Nobody took a punt on him after WC 2002 and Bremen saw their chance to buy him a few years ago. Once he put in the same level of performance in WC 2006 (though it has to be said he was sensational in domestic football that season too) it was inevitable bigger clubs would come knocking. I think Bayern see it as an insult to them if they’re outbid for the best of the Bundesliga.[/quote]

Bayern having being doing this for years have they not? Buying the best in the Bundesliga - the likes of Lucio, Ballack, Podolski, Ze Roberto, Jeremies in the day. There doesn’t seem to be another club in the league that have the clout to buy these players - strange