Celebrity Deaths 2022

Yes he did want to hold those states in the Soviet Union. But he liberalised the Soviet Union. And as Iā€™ve said the inevitable outcome of that was its break up, which was a categorically good thing. Because the entire entity was rotten.

The mistake that was made by the west when the Soviet Union broke up was not putting in place a Marshall Plan type plan to try and transition the former Soviet states to social democracy instead of unleashing shock doctrine on them. But for all that, by the late 1990s, Russia was on a tenuous road to being a valued member of the international community and on an even more tenuous road to some sort of prosperity.

Then a self styled ā€œstrong, decisive leaderā€ who in reality was a coward and a fantasist took charge, and what happened happened.

Self styled ā€œstrong, decisive leadersā€ are very, very overrated.

Just as well that we have Trudeau, Macron etc in the ā€œpolite westā€

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Yes all that happened subsequently was unintended by Gorbachev which would suggest that he was a hopeless incompetent which is where I started off here.

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Yes indeed, whatever their faults, and they have plenty, they are infinitely preferable to despots and utter charlatans like, Trump, Putin, Xi, Assad and Modi etc.

You seem to regret the Soviet Union breaking up, Fagan?

Should Gorbachev have liberalised the Soviet Union in any way, do you think?

Because to keep it together would have required coming down harder in terms of repression as it collapsed in on itself.

Donā€™t be so silly. You are lionising a man whose raisin detre was to to hold the Soviet Union together and failed utterly in that regard. If he had intended to liberalise and facilitate the break up of the Union Iā€™d have some regard for him but he utterly failed in his aims.

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@balbec what is the general verdict out your way on Gorby?

Kissinger looked fairly shook himself

I actually thought he was dead already and there he pops up live on TV. Shook and slow as he was the mind was sharp enough I thought

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I said he was the best leader of the Soviet Union there ever was. He thawed the international climate considerably. Donā€™t forget that as recently as 1984 nuclear war was on the pop of breaking out between the Soviets and the US. All that disappeared with Gorbachev. He pulled them out of Afghanistan as well.

Human rights are a good thing. Under him human rights improved considerably. The end of the Cold War and the break up of the Soviet Union were great things.

I couldnā€™t give a fuck whether he wanted to keep the Soviet Union together. Nobody outside Russia did.

As Soviet/Russian leaders go, which is not a high standard at all, he was as good as there was. He was the only one who had any humanity in him. The point is the system he came to preside over was not a system that valued humanity. It was dependent on absolute repression. Therefore when any humanity was introduced, its fall was inevitable.

You seem to take this idea personally.

Which leader of the Soviet Union was better?

What makes a good leader of a global superpower in your own book?

In the case of the leader of the Soviet Union, presiding over its collapse.

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What is your opinion of Ike? Of LBJ?

He was still sharp tbf, Tis the bodyā€™s letting him down

Johnson was one of the best US presidents domestically. Not so much on foreign policy.

Eisenhower would be hounded out of the Republican party with flaming torches and branded a traitor to them and a Beelzebub were he alive today.

Johnson was the man at the wheel when how many people were killed in Vietnam because they were potentially communists again? Was it a few or a lot. Was it paramount to American foreign policy at the time? Was it good leadership?

IKE fully intended to use nuclear weapons in war. He was absolutely prepared to do so in the name of MAD. There were no other battle plans during his tenure. Was that good leadership?

Most of History happens by accident.

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Starting a needless war is always a terrible idea. It was a terrible idea in Vietnam, in Iraq and in Ukraine.

Some people condemn the starting of the Vietnam and Iraq wars but support the war Russia launched on Ukraine. Work that one out.

Nuclear weapons were invented to win the war of all wars. They continue to exist because deterrence, and because others wonā€™t give them up. You hope you never have to use them. But any leader of a western nuclear power who isnā€™t prepared to state they will use nuclear weapons if they are first attacked with nuclear weapons should not be leading a western nuclear power.

Liz Truss was entirely correct to state she would be prepared to use nuclear weapons if necessary.

The message to Putin should be loud and clear - we will not use nuclear weapons first - but if you do, you will be wiped out.

Bit like most Galway hurlers. Showed lots of promise but never kicked on.

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