Cycle, crash, cycle, crash, cycle thread

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

I’m beginning to come round to your way of thinking on this Piper. What I think the article below misses are two things:

  1. The coverage is now on Sat.1 in Germany so the broadcasters gave the coverage to someone else
  2. Both those stations had funded T Mobile in the past and were heavily criticised in Germany for not being objective and consequently for misuse of public funds. That’s why they made the decision.

Don’t give up on the Tour yet
German broadcasters were wrong to suspending their coverage of the Tour following Patrick Sinkewitz’s failed doping test

William Fotheringham
July 20, 2007 3:09 PM
“Do you agree with our decision to pull out of covering the Tour?” the man with the camera and the microphone from German television asked me, among others, before Thursday’s stage started. I didn’t give the greatest of soundbites: “no, I don’t agree”.

I don’t believe that Germany’s public broadcasters did the right thing in suspending coverage of the Tour as a reaction to Patrick Sinkewitz’s positive test for testosterone. It is only a provisional move, until the B sample has been examined, but it is still an easy way out. In the most basic form, it means the broadcasters are asking for guarantees the Tour is clean. Given the events of the last nine years, that is simplistic.

Currently, you either accept cycling as it is or you don’t. But you don’t make that judgement on one case, and you don’t make it in the middle of the Tour de France. There are grounds for giving up on cycling, and there are grounds for being depressed about the Sinkewitz case, but they don’t lie in the mere fact that he was positive, more in the background.

It seems likely that the big losers will be T-Mobile: adidas have left them, Audi may follow, and the main sponsor is pondering its future as well. Keeping Sinkewitz on after last year’s massive clear-out now looks like a mistake, given that he had been a client of the “notorious” Dr Ferrari. My assumption, given what I know of the people now running the team, is that it was an honest mistake, but they may well end up being punished none the less.

If the Sinkewitz case is confirmed, it underlines the difficulty of changing mindsets. But how much difference does it make for a cyclist to be aware of how much is at stake? Awareness of the bigger picture is not something that comes naturally for many elite athletes: they live in a bubble, they are driven, they obsess about what the opposition is up to. In many cases, drug-takers don’t believe they are doing anything wrong, or that they will get caught. If they are going to dope, they are not going to be burdened by the consequences.

The “German TV question” comes back to the old conundrum: do you give up on cycling, or not? The answer is: we don’t give up on it, because to do so is a betrayal of the clean athletes and - in a wider sense - because you don’t believe people can change their ways. Call me a woolly liberal (I have written for the Guardian for nearly 20 years so perhaps it is justified) but I don’t have that jaundiced a view of humanity, yet. Give me another Tour or two, at the current rate of progression and I might be pretty yellow.

Which brings us seamlessly to Michael Rasmussen, he of the stick legs and “whereabouts issues” revealed on Thursday night. Provisos over the vexed nature of “whereabouts” aside, if the Danes are truly worried about whether “Chicken” has been on the run from the testers, they are right to drop him from the national team.

Safety first - an approach that T-Mobile would have done well to adopt with Sinkewitz. But that raises another issue: if the national federation has doubts about Rasmussen’s bona fides, where does that leave his professional team, Rabobank? And what should cycling fans think later in this Tour, when “Chicken” flies through the Pyrenees?

I’d refer you back to a previous blog on how to deal with it. Watch the cyclists race, admire the skill on the descents, marvel at the athleticism on the climbs, put your emotional energy behind the ones you believe are clean. Where it comes to the ones you don’t know about, be healthily sceptical. This little world isn’t going to change overnight.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Thats an excellent article. Cycling is getting healthier. The exposures are part of the process. I don’t believe Rasmussen is clean.
I thought it was very poor of Astana to ride exceptionally hard when Moreau was hurt. I remember when on one of the key mountain stages a couple of years ago Armstrong fell and Jan Ullrich waited for him only for Armstrong to attack him later in the stage. Ullrich had a great chance to put minutes between himself and Armstrong but didn’t. One of the reasons I really liked him.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

There’s a new article on the front page of the site about Rasmussen Piper.

On the Astana attack they’re getting a lot of credit for using the crosswind to split the peloton - a tactic that works a bit too often in Cycling Manager 2007 by the way. Anyway I think how they executed the split and all was superb but the point is that Rasmussen was injured, had gone back to get the doctor to look at his cuts and was then changing his pedals or something when Astana put the pressure on.

They wouldn’t have done it had Moreau not been at the back of the field because all the main contenders were at the front. So they only did it to hurt Moreau. And Moreau was only back there because he fell. That’s why I agree with you and think it was bad sportsmanship.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

therock67 wrote:

By the way Piper - just to clarify the big stages:

Saturday is TT.

Then Sunday is Pyrenees:

Monday is more mountains:

Tuesday is rest. Then Wednesday more mountains:

Only saw this today. Thanks very useful. Kloden could struggle with uphill finish on Sunday.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

He certainly could - especially if he puts everything in today trying to recover the time that he lost helping Vino earlier in the week. I think we’ll see a very aggressive Moreau on one of those stages. The KOTM is probably gone from him now because he hasn’t contested it and a GC win looks unlikely so I’d say he’ll be going out for a stage win. The great thing is that he probably won’t be that far behind the yellow jersey so people will have to react to his efforts and that could split the race wide open.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Vino is putting in a huge TT so far.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

What’s the take after today?

How is Vino expected to do in the Pyrenees? Has he left himself too much to do? Why was he so far behind before today anyway?

Will the fact there’s another time trial to come next week count against Rasmussen?

Who are the main dangers to the yellow jersey now?

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Today we learned the following:

  • Astana are ridiculously strong with Vino, Kloden and Kashechkin all in overall contention for the GC. It will be interesting to see now how much help they have to give Vino because he’ll be much stronger in the Pyrenees than he was in the Alps presumably but they won’t want Kloden working too hard for Vino and sacrificing his own chances in the process. Vino was behind overall because he crashed in the first week and lost time on that stage (crash was near the finish) so nobody waited. Then when the attacks came in the Alps he was unable to live with the aggression of Moreau, Mayo and Rasmussen and lost time. Kloden lost time helping Vino then too.
  • Moreau is out of it.
  • Valverde can’t win it with time trialling like that
  • Evans now has a chance, I think Piper mentioned him before the race as worth a punt. Don’t like Evans because he’s never aggressive: he just finishes with the yellow jersey group on every stage and then puts in a decent but unspectacular time trial.
  • Sastre isn’t completely out of it but 4 minutes is a lot to lose to Vino on one stage.
  • Contador looks like he’ll be a big rider for years to come
  • Gerdemann isn’t a bad timetrialler at all it seems and that’s after all his efforts in the Alps. Like this guy alot.

I think Kloden will win overall. I’d like to see Sastre win it because I’ve backed him.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Rasmussen has already attacked this morning. His breakaway has been caught now but he clearly intends to attack throughout the Pyrenees to build an unassailable lead before the second time trial. It’s a long time since we had an aggressive rider in the yellow jersey in Le Tour - should make for great viewing.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Some carnage in the Tour today. Plenty of attacks and tough pace setting in the lead groups and some guys were just wiped out. Incredible stuff and I missed plenty of it unfortunately.

Soler, Leipheimer and Sastre lost less than a minute.

Evans and Kloden lost almost 2 minutes to Contador (who won the stage) and Rasmussen (who finished with him).

Kashechkin lost 2’25"

Popovych who did plenty of the damage out front lost 3 minutes

Valverde lost 3’45"

Mayo lost 9’31"

Menchov lost 11 minutes

Hincapie lost 12 minutes

20 minutes later and half the field are yet to finish - including Vino!!!

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

I watched the last climb to the finish and it was excellent stuff.

I was going to ask you about Vino because they never mentioned him and then I turned back to the golf.

Is Popovych one of Rasmussen’s men? He had just hit the wall when I started watching it.

Rasmussen was incredibly strong and kept attacking the whole way up the climb. He pretty much burned all the rivals one by one. Kloden looked like dragging himself back at one stage but Rasmussen upped it again.

Evans lost all his time in the last 3 or 4 kilometres and Sastre couldn’t hold on either.

Has Rasmussen given himself enough time ahead of the time trial or will he need another big effort tomorrow?

Post edited by: Bandage, at: 2007/07/22 17:00

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Vino lost 28"50’! Incredible.

Gerdemann finished with Vino. Gusev lost 30 minutes. Moreau lost 34 minutes.

They are massive losses.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

At the bottom of the second climb:

Arroyo (GCE), Kirchen (TMO) Arvesen and Vande Velde (CSC), Menchov (RAB), Turpin (A2R), Zubeldia, Landaluze and Perez (EUS), Bennati and Vila (LAM), Kohl (GST), Halgand (C.A), Hincapie (DSC), Lefevre and Tschopp (BTL), Albasini (LIQ), Vaugrenard (FDJ), Garate (QSI), Knees (MRM), Vinokourov, Ivanov and Navarro (AST) and Cobo (SDV) are 8 minutes in front of the peloton.

Vino continues his erratic form - apparently he crashed yesterday but I don’t think that was the cause of anything because it was near the end.

Anyway a long way to go today.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Glad in a way that Astana have pulled out although I did have an investment on Kloden. Vino’s performances were for too erratic and with hindsight it was pretty clear he was on something. It could have been out of an act of desparation that he did the blood transfusion but did all the benefits he got from cheating evaporate when he lost 28 minutes the other day? Unlike in the T Mobile I suspect Vino wasn’t acting alone in cheating on the Astana team and they were terribly suspicios group. Out of all the teams they seemed the dodgiest. I’m with you in my admiration for Gerfemann Rock. Hope he wins it one day. He could be the first clean GC rider in many years if he wins it in the next few.
As an aside did Kimmage have any articles this week on Le Tour?

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

No Kimmage had interviews with Shane Warne and Andrew Flintoff. It’s not my intention to criticise Kimmage because he’s probably my favourite journalist and I admire his courage in writing about what nobody wanted him to write about for years. However, I found it strange to see him interviewing Warne without questioning him on his drugs indiscretions. If Kimmage was interviewing David Millar he’d surely have interrogated him on the steroids incident (he always does) so why does cycling demand higher standards than cricket? There have been high profile cover-ups of steroid abuse in cricket but nobody breathes a word.

There was an article from David Walsh on Rasmussen and one by someone else on the Tour in general (they gave it 2 pages in total). I can’t see them in work though so can’t post them up here.

Agreeing on Astana’s dodginess.

Looking at the top riders in the GC:

  • All the Astana guys smack of drugs
  • Contador was implicated in Operacion Puerto: he got off but I think (I may be wrong) that he was named on certain documents that weren’t enough to convict him of anything but that the other guy who was named on those same documents confessed to doping.
  • Mayo - why would he leave Euskaltel now? And why would he suddenly look so strong? Might be a little harsh because he’s fallen away completely on GC so maybe he put all his effort in the Alps.
  • Valdeverde I don’t know enough about his background
  • Rasmussen is obviously highly dodgy

Gerdemann is my great white hope.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Check out what a professional cyclist looks like:

That’s Rasmussen by the way.

http://www.ulrichfluhme.com/skeletor.jpg

Post edited by: therock67, at: 2007/07/25 09:52

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Anyway - the toughest stage in the Tour is on today and they’re midway up the first climb. Sastre is on an early attack with Soler and Mayo. Sastre is currently 5th overall (6’46" behiind Rasmussen) and I backed him each-way for the GC before the start.

There’s 4 riders 5 minutes ahead of them but they’re way down on GC. At the moment Sastre, Mayo and Soler have a lead of 50 seconds on the peloton and they’re possibly good enough to stay away.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

thepiedpiper wrote:

Glad in a way that Astana have pulled out although I did have an investment on Kloden.

Paddy are refunding bets on any bets on cyclists who are suspended for doping and they are including the whole Astana team in that.

Paddy Power issues refunds on ‘Tour De Farce’
25/07/2007 - 12:33:47

With yet another top cyclist expelled from the Tour De France for failing a drugs test bookie Paddy Power has announced a refund on all bets on Alexandre Vinokourov and his Astana team.

Vinokourov had been a well-backed pre-race favourite at 2/1 amongst punters although some disastrous stages had seen him drop out of the reckoning to 80/1 before his failed test led to his suspension.

Before their withdrawal, Astana had been leading the team standings in this year’s Tour and Paddy Power will be refunding on all their riders, including Andreas Kloeden who was in fifth place and Andrey Kashechkin in eighth.

Paddy Power estimates a refund of almost 35,000 on the effected riders.

Paddy Power said: “The Tour De France is descending into a Tour De Farce so we will be refunding bets on any rider who is suspended for a failed drugs test between now and the end of the tour. As well as cheating the sport it’s cheating the punters who bet on these riders in good faith.”

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Sastre, Mayo and Soler caught the guys out in front and they now have an advantage of 4 minutes over the peloton on the second big climb.

Re:Tour De France 2007 Preview

Sastre has a 5 minute advantage (with Mayo and Soler) over the peloton at the top of the second big climb. Soler has also taken the lead in the KOTM from Rasmussen.