@Tim_Riggins @Watch_The_Break @anon7035031 @Sidney
Can you give us a synopsis of what the right / left mean by the term fake news, please.
Originally it would have referred to completely fabricated news stories. Nowadays itâs a comfort blanket for those who hear anything that contradicts their worldview. A safe space of sorts.
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Is there a difference on either side of the spectrum in how they employ/deploy the term or are both sides equally using the term solely to dismiss anything they disagree with?
Fake news has always been around - But generally, thereâs no smoke without fire as the man says - is this about side-stepping culpability /responsibility on the establishmentâs side or have they a point and have the media to rethink how they generate clicks?
It seems to me that fake news is fake news.
I donât know how much you can generalise across such disparate groups, but I see it used to attack different interpretations or perspectives on political issues. Which of course isnât fake news at all. Itâs an inadequate concept due to its over-simplification of political discourse, which is a lot less binary than simple true or false analyses. But as I said, itâs an appealing comfort blanket for those who donât wish to engage with any fact or argument that they dislike. The world is what they want it to be, and everything to the contrary is âfakeâ.
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A good example of how âfake newsâ is used no can be seen in the Republican response to the Congressional Budget Office report on Trumpcare. The CBO report stated stats about the number of people who would lose health insurance for example. When people cited those stats on twitter, Trump supporters and GOP senators like the one below (Texas) would jut reply with âfake newsâ
These figures were coming from the CBO report itself. But by shouting fake news at anyone who reported it one could avoid actually engaging with the issue.
I think the fake news thing is part of a broader phenomenon within the explicitly right wing media wherein viewers/listeners are bombarded with the message that no one can be trusted to give them the truth except those outlets. Everyone else is lying to them. If you listen to any of those radio shows or watch the broadcasts, you will hear that message repeated over and over again. In the radio domain, this has been going on for 30 years. On television for at least 20. Trump just took it to the next level and simplified the message even further. No need to think about troublesome stories that contradict your beliefs about something, all that stuff is fake.
Itâs one thing to reinforce the information bubble, but this is more sinister. Articles that criticise Trump are now, by definition, âfakeâ.
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The context of the discussion is how much mistrust there is of the media in general. You have to remember that at least 90% of the media in the US is pro Democrat and 95% of campaign contributions from media outlets goes to Democrat candidates. In the recent Georgia house election for example, the Democratic candidate spent x7.5 times as much as the GOP and still lost. Voters are increasingly ignoring how the media are telling them to vote. The media are now seen as part of the elite whether you are left or right leaning.
The other factor is traditional media is dying, and are desperate to stay relevant, so eye catching headlines have replaced actual news. CNN is the worst offender, the wall to wall coverage on the Trump Russia story is nauseating at this stage. Actual political debate is being ignored while they obsess on this nonsense. My prediction is the investigation will go on for years and nothing substantial will come of it.
As for fake news, itâs just a catch phrase at this stage. I prefer the term biased news, which is what it is from both sides.
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Thatâs because most of it is horrendously biased, and anyone with a functioning brain can see that. Going back to my point above, other than Fox, the rest of the mainstream media is pro Democrat and contributes enormously to the DNC.
There is growing realization, even among many Democrats, that the Russia probe is absolute bullshit. The narrative that Russia is the great enemy of the US is such horseshit. When Obama was running against Romney and Romney referred to Russia as being hostile, Obama said stop living in the 1980s. Obama before he became president was caught on a hot mike telling a Russian official that relations would improve after he became president. The only substance to the Russia probe is Flynn, and the worst he may have done is say that sanctions may be reversed under the new administration.
To suggest the Trump campaign helped Russia hack the DNC is an insult to a 12 year oldâs brain. Whoever hacked the DNC needed no help, the stupid cunt Podesta handed over his password in a phishing scam.
The âMuslimâ ban is another example, where the media is being totally dishonest. Clearly the intent of the ban is to control travel from countries where ISIS is active and in most cases where the countries have zero ability to vet those travelling in or out of their countries. If it were a Muslim ban, surely you start with the fucking countries that have the great majority of Muslims living in them, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Eqypt, etc. You wonât hear that said on CNN or MSNBC.
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Ireland was a champion of fake news in the 1830s-1840s â Tory papers invented attacks on landlords and liberal papers invented evictions by landlords. They did it because the conditions existed to do so - the country was rotten politically, socially and more importantly economically - America today ticks those boxes easily.
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Well thatâs the whole point. There was always been âfake newsâ, but we call it propaganda for fucks sake. Even âspinâ, a dramatically reductionist concept in itself, is a better reflection of reality than âfake newsâ.
âFake newsâ really seems to be an attempt to explain why a political opposition to your beliefs exists. Thatâs certainly why the liberal establishment were shrieking about it after the US election. It canât be because they are utterly untrustworthy or because they have no vision whatsover of a world people would want to vote for, itâs because Facebook shared fake news stories.
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The Muslim ban was rejected on the basis that it violated the First Amendmentâs prohibition of government establishment of religion.
The court also stated that:
"âThe evidence in the record, viewed from the standpoint of the reasonable observer, creates a compelling case that (the executive orderâs) primary purpose is religious,â
And:
âThen-candidate Trumpâs campaign statements reveal that on numerous occasions, he expressed anti-Muslim sentiment, as well as his intent, if elected, to ban Muslims from the United States.â
It was an unconstitutional act of bigotry. Thereâs nothing ambiguous about that. You must have completely gone off at the deep end if you canât tell the difference between this and, say, the âObama is Kenyan Born Muslimâ story.
Thereâs nothing in common between the two stories. Obama being a Kenyan born Indonesian raised Muslim is a made up story, but despite Trumpâs crude language, most Americans who support the concept of an enhanced vetting system do so based on location, not religion. Trump misspoke, what he meant was letâs try and identity and deal with the bad Muslims. No need to target all of them, the 7 countries have just above 10% of the global Muslim population but a lot of the ISIS lads.
Is it time to do away with anonymity on the internet?
Iâd say so Paul, yeah. Sure who the fuck is even anonymous anymore?
The fake news lads on Reddit, TFk and Twitter.
Thats Mats Humels sure
Trump supporter Charlotte Laws complaining about âThe Onionâ being âfake newsâ on tonightâs Newsnight.
Eh, yes, love, The Onion is fake news.
Itâs called satire.