Fascinating discussion on the merits of Ulster football

Sport
1

No, you are the one that is badly making a point. You’ve randomly re-asserted that making the quarter finals in the last three years is some sort of definitive benchmark of success. You’ve completely ignored and glossed over what has happened in those quarter finals - three of those counties in the specific three year time frame you’ve referred to delivered absolute shockers in the quarter finals - Monaghan and Donegal losing by 17 and 16 points and Cavan performed not a whole lot better in just registering 0-9.

Credit to Fermanagh with possibly the smallest playing pick making the last 8, but the vagaries of the draw has been of considerable assistance to them in that regard. The three sides they’ve had to beat to get that far, Antrim, Roscommon and Westmeath are a long way removed from elite county status. None of them are even Top 10.

Winning trophies is the benchmark of success. In the 8 big competitions of 2014, Ulster drew a complete blank, the only province to do so:

Senior - Kerry
U21 - Dublin
Minor - Kerry
National League - Dublin
Club Championship - St Vincent’s Dublin
Railway Cup - Connacht
Hogan Cup - Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne, Kerry
Sigerson Cup - University College Cork

In 2015, of the 5 prizes that have been claimed so far, at least Ulster have got off the mark. All four provinces have registered at least one winner.

U21 - Tyrone
National League - Dublin
Club Championship - Corofin, Galway
Hogan Cup - Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne, Kerry
Sigerson Cup - Dublin City University

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2

It’s all about inter county football and when you look at what Province makes up the highest proportion of the top teams, it’s Ulster and it’s the spread of the Ulster teams that further reinforces it. Not to mention the fact that 8 of the 9 Ulster teams will play in the top two Divisions next season - compared to 2 in 6 for Munster, 3 in 6 for Connacht (inc London who play in the Connacht Championship) and 3 in 11 for Leinster.

This is the All Ireland Senior Football Championship thread, it relates to inter-county teams, so I don’t see why you felt the need to diverse into school, university or a Mickey Mouse Inter-Provincial title where nobody turns up and is not even televised.

Stay on point, Geoff.

3

Surely, there’s a thread for National League Football running elswhere.

This is the All Ireland Senior Football Championship 2015 thread.

4

Yes and the same senior teams and playing panels participate in both.

The facts don’t lie, Ulster football reigns supreme and that’s a fact you need to make peace with.

5

The Sigerson Cup Final and Hogan Cup Schools final are televised live every year. You really don’t follow gaelic football very closely other than tuning into a few games a year from July to September.

6

I never said they weren’t, I said the Railway Cup wasn’t, do try and educate yourself, Geoff. This isn’t playing out well for you on a public forum.

7

Its playing out very well for me. You’ve randomly picked weight of numbers in making the quarter final as the benchmark of success. You’ve completely failed to address the unmerciful hidings that are routinely handed out to Ulster sides when those quarter finals are actually played, which I have given you a schooling on.

Why not make appearances in semi finals as the benchmark of success? If we take this decade, Leinster have had more appearances in the All Ireland semi finals than any of the other provinces.

Why not make appearances in All Ireland Finals as the benchmark of success. If we take this decade, Munster have had three final appearances, the same as Ulster.

Who not even make winning the All Ireland final as the benchmark of success. If we take this decade, its gone to Munster 3 times, Leinster twice and Ulster just the once.

The reason? None of this suits your Ulster uber alles narrative.

The Ulster Championship has been locked into a Donegal/Monaghan duopoly these last 5 years. Beyond that, the standard is poor. Donegal have been able to step up onto the national stage. Monaghan have not - beaten by 17 points in last year’s quarter final outside of their familiar surroundings of Ulster and still waiting to advance beyond the quarter final for the first time since their introduction in 2001.

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8

The more you type, the tighter the noose you are making for yourself. Why not make the semis a benchmark? Because the semis boil down to the same counties every year, your Dublins, Kerrys and Mayo who only need win one game once they get out of their noncompetitive provinces. If we take this millennium, Ulster has had four different counties in All Ireland final appearances, Leinster one, Connacht two and Munster two. What does that tell you?

In this millennium, Ulster has had 6 different semi-finalists, which will rise to 7 if Monaghan can progress this year, Leinster has had 4. 7 different teams have won the All Ireland in this millenium - 3 from Ulster, 2 from Connacht. In this millenium - Down, Fermanagh and Derry have failed to capture the Ulster title yet they were all able to progress to the last four of the All Ireland and in Down’s case they were able to get to the final.

The bottom line and what the facts allude to is that there are as many serious teams in Ulster as there are in the rest of the provinces combined and this is of huge benefit to the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Dublin who have the Ulster lads undertake a long hard journey to get to the QF stage where they can stroll through untouched in their shit provinces.

The quarter finals are the important barometer as that is where the All Ireland series begins, after the Provincial Championships are done (which are segregated by their very nature) - and allow equal representation for the first four teams and the qualifiers which are unsegregated by their nature and allow the best of the rest to come through - which has been a majority Ulster.

If you look at the last three years, 2013, 2014 and 2015 the teams outside of Ulster that came through the qualifiers to progress to the last 8 were:

Kildare 2015 - By beating Offaly, Longford and Cork

Cork 2014 - By beating Sligo in the qualifiers
Galway 2014 - By beating Tipp

Cork 2013 - By beating Galway

It’s no surprise that these teams that managed to make it through to the last 8 did so as they avoided an Ulster team on their way.

9

Making a noose for yourself? Look who’s talking. You might want to reflect on the fact that over the last 50 years Cork’s record against Ulster opposition reads won 9 from 13. That’s a 69% winning ratio. Cork have never been beaten by Tyrone in championship football. Meeting an Ulster side in the qualifiers invariably ensures safe passage of advancement for Cork.

1967 beat Cavan
1973 beat Tyrone
1988 beat Monaghan
1993 lost Derry
1994 lost Down
2004 lost Fermanagh
2006 beat Donegal
2009 beat Donegal
2009 beat Tyrone
2010 beat Cavan
2010 beat Down
2011 beat Down
2012 lost Donegal

10

@Rocko, what features does this new software have to spare us reading this rehashed discussion?

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What happened 50 years ago is irrelevant.

12

What is relevant is you’ve just got another schooling. Your fundamental problem is you don’t have any grasp of basic enough facts. Time and time again you hold yourself hostage to fortune with idiotic statements like Cork ‘only make it through to the last 8…when they avoid an Ulster team on their way’.

Its common knowledge that Cork have an excellent record both historic and recent against Ulster sides and invariably Cork come out on top against Ulster opposition.

13

No. I think you’ll find I didn’t say that. I said in the past few years, all the teams who progressed to the last 8 via the qualifier route and were not from Ulster didn’t have to beat an Ulster team along the way. Once again your cowardice and poor comprehension skills have let you down.

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14

Take your beating with some dignity.

General Melchett in Blackadder goes Forth sums up your sort of delusion best.

“If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through”.

15

You’d be better off taking your own advice as you are incapable of besting me in a debate, I’m out of reach for a chump like you.

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There was a stat quoted on one of the daily papers during the week that in Round 4/Last 12 Qualifiers, beaten provincial finalists over the years had only won 20 and lost 36 of 56. After yesterday, that now reads won 20 and lost 38 of 58.

For whatever reason, beaten provincial finalists seem to have a major problem in refocussing and regrouping.

17

I have comprised a fact based theory that corrects your assertion of teams not being able to regroup being the reasoning behind that stat.

It’s do with Ulster teams coming into play in that stage and how they are better than teams from other provinces.

18

If this thread doesn’t convince Rocko to bring back the ignore function nothing will.

19

Your fact based theory in respect of Ulster performances in the qualifiers in 2014 looks somewhat flawed in light of the following set of results.

Derry were beaten at home by Longford in Round 1 of the Qualifiers.

Fermanagh were beaten by Laois in Round 1 of the Qualifiers

Down were beaten by Kildare by 10 points in Newry in Round 2 of the Qualifiers.

Cavan were beaten by 11 points at home in Breffni Park by Roscommon in Round 2 of the Qualifiers.

Antrim were beaten by a Division 4 side Limerick in Round 2 of the Qualifiers

Monaghan were knocked out of the championship by Dublin - hammered by 17 points.

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Yet we still had the highest proportion of the the teams in the final 8 - and that was on a bad year!