They should have been incredibly strong between 2014 and 17 but they werenāt.
If a championship attracts large spectator interest, itās a demonstration that itās a good championship. If it attracts small spectator interest, itās a demonstration that it isnāt.
Traditionally in GAA at all levels, itās the on the day element, the jeopardy, that attracts spectators. Traditional rivalries are also a key element in attracting spectator interest.
Big occasions also attract spectator interest, and with the provincial finals, particularly Munster, these occasions have over a century of tradition to lend them weight, even if they are no longer knockout.
I just canāt see any way that two cross province five team groups, played on a home and away basis, with four of the five teams qualifying for All-Ireland quarter-finals, would attract much spectator interest. The outcome is much too obvious.
Iāve had my doubts about the round robin system as currently instituted, and still do, but in Munster it attracts incredible spectator interest. There is real jeopardy and every game matters, and you have your Munster final at the end of it ā the round robin has only whetted the appetite for the provincial final. It has turned the prevailing opinion that the provincial championships were old hat on its head.
The Leinster championship as a competition currently has a few problems compared to Munster.
1 Everybody expects Kilkenny and Galway to coast through to the Leinster final. Kilkenny and Galway supporters arenāt inclined to come out in large numbers for their games, even at home, because of this.
2 Whereas Munster has five counties who all border each other and is packed with traditional border rivalries, Leinster is a jumble of counties geographically. Only Kilkenny v Wexford is a traditional border rivalry. The distances involved means away support is minimal, whereas in Munster you get good away support.
3 Wexford and Dublin are sick of each other. They donāt have any great historical enmity, but are locked in this battle for third place for the foreseeable future, with the winner of the battle in line for a tanking in an All-Ireland quarter-final.
4 Leinster tends to have a couple of whipping boy teams each year, even they they can sometimes muster big one off performances, like Westmeath against Wexford this year.
5 Croke Park is much too big for Kilkenny v Galway Leinster finals and that creates its own dynamic to push people away from attending. The decision to stage Dublinās home games in Croke Park this year was very bad for those games as spectacles. Munster has a nice spread of stadiums with four stadiums around the 40-45k mark capable of hosting provincial finals. In terms of staging the final, Leinster only has Croke Park and then thereās a massive drop off, Portlaoise is probably the next biggest.
If, in the late 1980s/early 1990s, youād had a Leinster round robin system with Kilkenny, Offaly, Wexford, Galway, Dublin and Antrim or Laois, I think it would have worked quite well because youād have had genuine jeopardy in such a group.
I donāt really see an alternative to funding the non-Kilkenny/Galway counties to a level where they can be very competitive again and I donāt think ending the provincial system is the answer. Munster is too good a competition to throw away.
The success of Leinster hurling depends to a massive amount on Wexford, as Wexford, when they go well, bring huge support. If Offaly could be thrown into the mix, so much the better. If Dublin could compete, so much better again. That creates the jeopardy. Year on year you begin to build up keen rivalries that people want to see. The competition is the key.
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if a club format such as above was proposed in any county, it would be shot down straight away. Thats a load of shite Iām sorry to say. Iād have no interest in 2 games a month spread over 8 months.
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I wouldnāt mind that though, you wouldnāt bin the World Cup/CL because France/Madrid were qualified with agame to go or whatever.
Home and away Championship ties would be huge economically as well, Limerick/Cork this year, I donāt think Iāve ever seen Limerick City as busy on a Sunday evening; loads of great spin offs to that.
Might be a drop off I suppose just because they probably have the most remarkable player of all time hurling with them right now. Theyāve savage backs coming through though.
It works for junior soccer and rugby.
Training five months from march to august for a glorified mini blitz isnāt going to be that appealing going forward.
Players love playing matches.
I think it would be just fine.
The Dublin Senior Football League Division 1 has 16 teams.
In 2022, the dates for the 15 rounds of fixtures were:
February 13
March 6
March 20
April 2
April 24
May 4 (midweek)
May 7
May 18 (midweek)
May 21
June 1 (midweek)
June 15 (midweek)
June 18
June 29 (midweek)
July 2
July 13 (midweek)
Championship began the weekend of August 6th/7th. League play-off rounds in October/November. The Dublin SFC is 16 teams with four groups of four teams followed by quarter-finals etc.
The Dublin Hurling League Division 1 has 12 teams.
In 2022 the dates for the 11 rounds of fixtures were:
February 26
March 12
March 26
April 15 (Friday)
April 26 (midweek)
May 10 (midweek)
May 13 (Friday)
May 24 (midweek)
May 27 (Friday)
June 10 (Friday)
June 21-26
The Senior Hurling Championship began July 20th (midweek). The Dublin SHC is 12 teams with two round robin groups of six, so five rounds of fixtures with quarter-finals to follow.
With my plan I think the run of fixtures is better to be honest. With a dual club, say Cuala, theyād have had the following run of fixtures in 2023. Iāve included the inter-county senior teamsā fixtures to see how things would work while competitions run simultaneously.
Club championship games in bold, Inter county fixtures in italics
February 26 Club Football League Round 1
March 5 Club Hurling League Round 1
March 12 Club Football League Round 2
March 19 Club Hurling League Round 2
March 26 Club Football League Round 3
April 2 Club Hurling League Round 3 and Dublin v Derry NFL Division 2 Final
April 9 Club Football League Round 4 and Antrim v Dublin Leinster Hurling Championship
April 16 Club Hurling League Round 4
April 23 Club Football League Round 5
April 30 SHC Round 1
May 7 Club Football League Round 6 and Dublin v Wexford Leinster Hurling Championship
May 14 Club Hurling League Round 5 and Dublin v Laois Leinster Football Quarter-Final
May 21 SHC Round 2
May 28 Club Football League Round 7
June 4 Club Hurling League Round 6 and Westmeath v Dublin Leinster Hurling Championship
June 11 Club Football League Round 7 and Dublin v Kildare Leinster Football Semi-Final
June 18 SHC Round 3
June 25 SFC Round 1
July 2 Club Football League Round 8 and Kilkenny v Dublin Leinster Hurling Championship
July 5 (midweek) Club Hurling League Round 7
July 9 Club Football League Round 9 and Dublin v Galway Leinster Hurling Championship
July 16 Club Hurling League Round 8 and Dublin v Louth Leinster Football Final
July 23 Club Football League Round 10 and Carlow v Dublin All-Ireland Hurling Preliminary Quarter Final
July 26 (midweek) Club Hurling League Round 9
July 30 Club Football League Round 11
August 2 (midweek) Club Football League Round 12
August 6 Club Football League Round 13 and Clare v Dublin All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Final
August 13 Club Hurling League Round 10 and Dublin v Mayo All-Ireland Football Quarter-Final
August 20 Club Football League Round 14
August 27 Club Hurling League Round 11 and Dublin v Monaghan All-Ireland Football Semi-Final
September 2 Club Football League Round 15
September 10 Dublin v Kerry All-Ireland Football Final
September 17 SHC Round 4
September 24 SFC Round 2
October 1 SHC Round 5
October 8 SFC Round 3
October 15 SHC Quarter-Finals
October 22 SFC Quarter-Finals
October 29 SHC Semi-Finals
November 5 SFC Semi-Finals
November 12 SHC Final
November 19 SFC Final
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This type of detail is far too nuanced and technical for the average split season zealot.
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Why would it be shot down?
Under my plan, if youāre a club hurler in Dublin, you know when youāre playing. You have a regular programme of fixtures.
You get guaranteed games on the following dates:
March 5
March 19
April 2
April 16
April 30 (championship)
May 14
May 21 (championship)
June 4
June 18 (championship)
July 5
July 16
July 26
August 13
August 27
September 17 (championship)
October 1 (championship)
Plus possible knockout stages. Itās a good spread and you can plan your life around it. If a player gets an injury now at the wrong time, they likely miss the entire club championship.
Repeatedly using a particular phrase will not improve your argument.
Admirable detail. But the problem is that club players are overwhelmingly happy with a split season structure. So are intercounty players. While that reality obtains, some version of the split season will continue.
GAA championship structures need a complete rethink and rejig, starting with deletion of provincial championships.
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Thanks for engaging closely with what I suggested.
A system which would breathe new life into Waterford. True statement, I think, and at least we would have no comment about the two unqualified Munster teams being better than at least one of the Leinster qualifiers from round robin. The structure I suggested is fairer, which can hardly be an insignificant consideration.
I still think thereād be dead rubbers with that system. That aspect will be there in any conceivable structure.
40 games seems like a bit of overkill to eliminate 4 teams from the championship as well. You are forgetting that my suggestion replaces not just the current championship but also the current league. ā40 games to eliminate 2 teams soā: therefore not an accurate account of overall proposalās impact.
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By getting rid of the league, I am assuming that this format will be in place for Joe Mc, Ring,Rackard and Meaghar?
Plenty of people have terrible short memories ā and will not thank you for reminding them of same.
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Excellent point. I am happy to admit, as I think I always have, fixtures and structures make for a highly complex topic. But, yes, I do reckon a version of the home and away format would also work as a gateway to championship in hurlingās four other tiers.
I think a man as well informed as yourself knows, deep down, there was far more involved in the CPAās emergence than such stuff.
A similar amount of games in better conditions would bring on those below Liam McCarthy no end.
At the moment, most teams have played the majority of their hurling by March and all of it the end of May. Getting the āfootballā counties to agree to such a change would be the issue.
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Again, excellent points. I obviously agree 100%. The point about hurling during May and June is crucial.
As I have tried to stress, league and championship structures need a complete overhaul. The provincial framework is way past its sell by date, not just the Munster situation.
Iād still be in favour of a slight tweak to your idea. Afford the group winner the opportunity to go straight into a semi-final with 2nd and 3rd gaining entry to a quarter-final. A more cut throat nature to the group if 4th place exit the championship. Bearing in mind that they hypothetically may only have one win against Antrim from 8 games and still avoid relegation on head to head.
Although thinking back the quarter-finals with 8 teams produced plenty of decent games during that 2005-2007 period. Galway v Tipp 2005 (Damien Hayes memorable and controversial goal), Cork v Waterford in 2005 and 2007x2, Wexford beating Tipp 2007, Cork v Limerick 2006 stick in the mind. Even Kilkenny v Limerick (2005) and Kilkenny v Galway (2007) had a fair element of suspense until the closing minutes. I also have a vague recollection of Waterford and Tipp playing out a very decent quarter-final in 06ā. Evidence that system worked in the past.
I would largely agree with those tweaks. To me, the main thing is to make the overall structure fairer and more coherent. The current one is far from optimum.