Has mourinhio been sacked?

Interesting claims from today’s Observer that John Terry stabbed Mourinho in the back:

‘Turncoat’ Terry

Duncan Castles

Sunday September 23, 2007

Jose Mourinho’s relationship with John Terry has broken down completely over the Chelsea and England captain’s central role in his departure from Stamford Bridge last week.
The Champions League-winning coach was replaced on Thursday by Avram Grant, a former Israel national team coach with no experience of club management outside his own country. According to many Chelsea sources, Grant will defer on football matters to owner Roman Abramovich, who has already started to take a hands-on role with the first team.

Mourinho holds Terry responsible for charges levelled by Chelsea’s board of directors that he had lost the support of his playing staff after Tuesday’s Champions League draw with Rosenborg - a match that was followed by club owner Roman Abramovich lecturing a senior professional on his on-field tactics behind Mourinho’s back.
Half an hour before the Group B fixture, claims a dressing-room source, Terry told one of Mourinho’s assistant coaches that he had ‘things on my mind’. Only the intervention of a team-mate put him in the right state of mind to take part in the pre-match warm-up, for which Terry arrived late.

Midway through the first half Rosenborg scored, after Miika Koppinen beat Terry at a set piece. When Mourinho then directly criticised the centre back’s defending at half time, Terry refused to accept responsibility for the goal or even to respond to his manager.

Earlier on Tuesday, Terry had been informed that Mourinho had gone to the club’s medical department to ask whether there was any physical reason for the player’s sub-standard performances in matches this season. Mourinho hoped to find an explanation for a significant decline in Terry’s play following an operation to remove a disc from the defender’s spine in December.

Chelsea chief executive Peter Kenyon was made aware of the dispute and, according to the dressing-room source, presented the information to an emergency board meeting on Wednesday as evidence that the manager had lost the trust of key players. The club subsequently asked Mourinho for his resignation, which he refused to tender, but ultimately settled on dismissal by ‘mutual consent’. Later on Wednesday, Mourinho sent Terry a text message sarcastically thanking him for talking to the club’s hierarchy.

On Friday, several first-team regulars apparently took their captain to task during a 50-minute team meeting called by Terry in the aftermath of Mourinho’s dismissal. Ashley Cole, Didier Drogba and Florent Malouda are believed to have accused him of not doing enough to keep Mourinho at the club.

Terry is England’s best-paid footballer after agreeing a five-year, 131,000-a-week contract this summer. In initial negotiations he had requested a ‘limitless parity’ clause to ensure he was the club’s biggest earner for the duration of a proposed nine-year term. According to a Chelsea insider Terry also wanted - and was refused - a contractual option for him to manage the club at the end of his playing career.

As far-fetched as that request might be, Abramovich’s actions in the aftermath of the Rosenborg draw were equally bizarre. In front of the entire Chelsea team, but while Mourinho was occupied with press conference duties, the Russian billionaire decided to hand out an impromptu tactics lesson to Michael Essien.

Employing striker Andriy Shevchenko as translator, he instructed midfielder Essien, player of the year last season, to hit passes wide rather than through central areas where the Norwegians had compressed play. Abramovich is expected to take an increasingly hands-on role in the team following the appointment of Grant to replace Mourinho and, according to several sources, will effectively select the side. In a press conference on Friday, Grant insisted he would not tolerate interference but declined to respond when asked who was the most important individual at Chelsea. ‘Look, the owner gives the financial support,’ Grant said. ‘I’m not going to make remarks.’

The 52-year-old is already the subject of significant discontent among a first-team squad predominantly still loyal to Mourinho. Grant, though, is confident he will bring not only more silverware to Chelsea but a more attractive brand of football and said on Friday that he had no problems with the playing staff. ‘There’s a very good relationship with the players,’ he said. ‘I like their attitude, how they want to win all the time, even if the last result wasn’t like that, but the relationship is good.’

Grant’s first match comes at Old Trafford this afternoon, but he did not work yesterday for religious reasons. He must also wait for his Israeli coaching qualifications to be cleared by Uefa before he can be formally approved as a top-flight manager. Chelsea insist the process will be trouble-free.

Though Grant claimed that he had no ‘plan to be the manager’ until the appointment came about, he had begun requesting clearance from Uefa a fortnight ago.

According to Kenyon, the ‘first-team coach’ will be involved in all key areas of transfers and team building. He said: ‘We are not embarking on the arbitrary buying of players and telling the coach to play them. Avram will be absolutely involved, responsible for picking the team and responsible for the results.’

Kenyon denied that Terry - who declined to comment last night - played any part in Mourinho’s departure: ‘There is absolutely nothing in stories that the dressing room has been lost. In particular there is no truth in any rumours that a bust-up with one or several of our players led to him leaving the club.’

therock67 wrote:

I was at both Celtic-United games last year as well and I’ll give you a first hand account of what happened. In Manchester there was no trouble whatsoever. I walked to the ground along with 3 other forum members on here and hundreds more. We spent the whole day around the city and there was no animosity or arguments at all.

At the home leg some United fans came up with the intention of causing trouble. They had a go at attacking some Celtic pubs on the way to the ground and made an effort at something similar afterwards. There were no running battles and no fights at all with any Celtic fans.

Again you’re making wild claims about situtations you didn’t see and your sum total of knowledge on this topic seems to be from some hooligan book or books you read - utterly unreliable. I’ve been at a good few Celtic away games in the past few years in England, Italy, Portugal and Germany and I’ve never seen a hint of trouble at any of those games. To be perfectly frank I’m willing to base my assessment of the Celtic fans’ behaviour on what I’ve witnessed and not some book written to shock everyone and consequently sell as many copies as possible.

Your arguments in favour of anti-Irish sentiment would be utterly laughable if they weren’t indicative of a dangerous mindset. The ANC were involved in a bombing campaign in South Africa - did that justify Apartheid? Is anti-Muslim racism now acceptable or “excusable” because of the events of 9/11? Christ almighty there’s a difference between racism and justice. There are no circumstances in which it is acceptable to condemn or abuse an entire race of people. None. And there are no circumstances where that should be regarded as “excusable.”

Arguments like racism being “part and parcel” of most social groups really do shy away from the truth.

Don’t want to drag this out too longer but…

Arguments “in favour” of anti-Irishness??? I can understand the reasons for it, I didn’t comment on their validity; obviously my opinion is that they’re NOT valid reasons to condemn a whole nation and its people. But to repeat:

The ANC were involved in a bombing campaign in South Africa - did that justify Apartheid?

No.

Is anti-Muslim racism now acceptable or “excusable” because of the events of 9/11?

No.

I take everything you’ve said about Celtic games at face value. However, other people who I know well and have no reason to disbelieve, have told me otherwise.

My cousin, who worked for a well known travel agent here in Dublin and is a Celtic fan all his life, witnessed the Celtic away support being battered by the Police in Vigo Airport a few years ago. Earlier in the day the Celtic fans had been singing ETA/IRA songs at the police, and it’s a fair bet that police aggression might have been down to that; doesn’t make it right obviously.

Last year in Milan, a Celtic fan I know well said that Celtic fans urinated in and littered the main square in Milan; hardly crime of the century, and hardly behaviour exclusive to Celtic fans, but a lot of Italians were unimpressed, as the area in question was home to some significant religious statues (don’t think this was the area outside Central Station).

The same lad witnessed numerous small skirmishes at both legs of the United game; this doesn’t in any way lessen the truth of what you said but just because you didn’t see any hassle in the Irish Centre and on the walk to the ground, doesn’t mean nothing happened.

All the above is in the interest of balance; I count plenty of Celtic fans among my friends and I’ve no real bitterness towards them, and I don’t want it to come across as if I did. But a bit of perspective is needed; no-one is suggesting that Celtic have anything nearly as sinister as the nazi-loving Rangers fans and the antics they got up to in Israel; but like any other club, Celtic have enough “bad eggs”.

i was in galicia before & they wouldnt be overly anti eta there- but the gaurda civil or whatever they are called are pricks & as in a few other cases Celtic fans get targeted as british football fans & id say that is what turned them against the celtic fans ( they were right to attack the spurs 7 rangers fans though)

Sledgehammer wrote:

therock67 wrote:

[quote]

I was at both Celtic-United games last year as well and I’ll give you a first hand account of what happened. In Manchester there was no trouble whatsoever. I walked to the ground along with 3 other forum members on here and hundreds more. We spent the whole day around the city and there was no animosity or arguments at all.

At the home leg some United fans came up with the intention of causing trouble. They had a go at attacking some Celtic pubs on the way to the ground and made an effort at something similar afterwards. There were no running battles and no fights at all with any Celtic fans.

Again you’re making wild claims about situtations you didn’t see and your sum total of knowledge on this topic seems to be from some hooligan book or books you read - utterly unreliable. I’ve been at a good few Celtic away games in the past few years in England, Italy, Portugal and Germany and I’ve never seen a hint of trouble at any of those games. To be perfectly frank I’m willing to base my assessment of the Celtic fans’ behaviour on what I’ve witnessed and not some book written to shock everyone and consequently sell as many copies as possible.

Your arguments in favour of anti-Irish sentiment would be utterly laughable if they weren’t indicative of a dangerous mindset. The ANC were involved in a bombing campaign in South Africa - did that justify Apartheid? Is anti-Muslim racism now acceptable or “excusable” because of the events of 9/11? Christ almighty there’s a difference between racism and justice. There are no circumstances in which it is acceptable to condemn or abuse an entire race of people. None. And there are no circumstances where that should be regarded as “excusable.”

Arguments like racism being “part and parcel” of most social groups really do shy away from the truth.

Don’t want to drag this out too longer but…

Arguments “in favour” of anti-Irishness??? I can understand the reasons for it, I didn’t comment on their validity; obviously my opinion is that they’re NOT valid reasons to condemn a whole nation and its people. But to repeat:

The ANC were involved in a bombing campaign in South Africa - did that justify Apartheid?

No.

Is anti-Muslim racism now acceptable or “excusable” because of the events of 9/11?

No.

I take everything you’ve said about Celtic games at face value. However, other people who I know well and have no reason to disbelieve, have told me otherwise.

My cousin, who worked for a well known travel agent here in Dublin and is a Celtic fan all his life, witnessed the Celtic away support being battered by the Police in Vigo Airport a few years ago. Earlier in the day the Celtic fans had been singing ETA/IRA songs at the police, and it’s a fair bet that police aggression might have been down to that; doesn’t make it right obviously.

Last year in Milan, a Celtic fan I know well said that Celtic fans urinated in and littered the main square in Milan; hardly crime of the century, and hardly behaviour exclusive to Celtic fans, but a lot of Italians were unimpressed, as the area in question was home to some significant religious statues (don’t think this was the area outside Central Station).

The same lad witnessed numerous small skirmishes at both legs of the United game; this doesn’t in any way lessen the truth of what you said but just because you didn’t see any hassle in the Irish Centre and on the walk to the ground, doesn’t mean nothing happened.

All the above is in the interest of balance; I count plenty of Celtic fans among my friends and I’ve no real bitterness towards them, and I don’t want it to come across as if I did. But a bit of perspective is needed; no-one is suggesting that Celtic have anything nearly as sinister as the nazi-loving Rangers fans and the antics they got up to in Israel; but like any other club, Celtic have enough “bad eggs”.[/quote]

Well you may not be in favour of anti-Irishness but you did say it is “excusable” which I think is way off the mark.

Raven is bang on about the guadia civilia by the way (or whatever their title is). They’re utterly distrusted and disrespected in Euskadi and Galicia for their over the top attacks on the public so it’s not surprising they’d have been eager for a bit of violence against a Celtic fanbase with Basque Flags etc.

I’d genuinely be very surprised if there was anything remotely newsworthy in terms of violence at Old Trafford. There were a couple of Celtic fans who got kicked out of the Stretford End for celebrating the goals but that was more of a safety issue than anything as they were clearly annoying the home fans. Where we were (other end of the ground but in a United section) it was all very civilised and I’d like to say we got on with the United fans around us but the truth was they were there with popcorn and a coke to be entertained like they were at the cinema or something. This debate was originally about hooliganism though and there was certainly no organised or even isolated instances of hooliganism at the game.

What went on in Milan was nothing compared to Lisbon where the crowd were all in one square - it was a bit more spread out in Milan but there were plenty of guys at Duomo getting drunk and pissing. To be honest there were feck all places to piss and I’ve been in Milan on a couple of other occasions non-football related and I’ve been out drinking with locals who are friends of friends and absolutely every last one of the males takes a piss wherever they like in public. They have one toilet in most pubs for blokes and women and the guys just don’t use it. Probably not brilliant behaviour but as you imply it would have been the same no matter who was there - including fans of the Irish soccer team.

Obviously there are bad eggs in any support and I agree that Celtic are in no way comparable to the huns in that respect. But these bad eggs tend to be drunk individuals and not members of a “firm” or band of guys intent on causing violence.

Sledgehammer wrote:
[Last year in Milan, a Celtic fan I know well said that Celtic fans urinated in and littered the main square in Milan; hardly crime of the century, and hardly behaviour exclusive to Celtic fans, but a lot of Italians were unimpressed, as the area in question was home to some significant religious statues (don’t think this was the area outside Central Station).[quote]

What’s your point in relating these second hand stories about Celtic supporters’ travels in Europe? I was at the Milan game in March with several of the lads on here and we spent the day of the game drinking in Duomo Square, along with about 10,000 other Celtic supporters. Of course there was going to be litter left behind in the vacinity. I left some empty cans on the ground myself as I didn’t notice any bins around me and I decided not to carry them with me on the metro up to the ground. It’s hardly worth commenting on really. I queued up in the Burger King off the square to urinate on a few occasions but I’m sure other people might have gone for a piss down one side street or another. Again, I wouldn’t really incriminate any of them for doing so. Some Milanese may well have been unhappy that their square was descended upon for a day but the atmosphere was friendly throughout. The reception the Celtic support got inside and outside the stadium at the end of the game from Milan supporters, stewards, medical personnel and police would suggest they had no problems whatsoever with us too.

No matter what part of Spain you’re in the police don’t mess around, and no matter what part of Spain you’re in, the police aren’t fond of ETA or any drunken football fans who sing about them. I take your point that the people, and particularly the football fans in Galicia wouldn’t be overly anti-ETA, and some Vigo fans are fairly close to some Athletic Bilbao fans. All that said, when it comes to ETA, the police are pretty much the same no matter which part of Spain you’re in.

Like most, I had a chuckle when the huns got slapped in Pamplona (especially the fanny in the pink top :grin: ), but have no idea what really happened at either Sevilla-Spurs or Osasuna-Rangers games to cause the police action that followed.

What’s your point in relating these second hand stories about Celtic supporters’ travels in Europe?

Putting a bit of perspective to the widely touted opinion that Celtic fans are some kind of superior beings who are total strangers to any kind of trouble, be it organised or not. Well, that and good old fashioned tit for tat; if someone is going to have a go at Chelsea fans, I’ll have a go back (even though I rarely go to Chelsea, and certainly wouldn’t be as big a fan as most here are of Celtic).

Chelsea chairman Bruce Buck has accused some fans of racism and anti-Semitism in the wake of protests against manager Avram Grant.

The Israeli, whose father is a holocaust survivor, has been the subject of abuse from supporters angered at the departure of Jose Mourinho.

Buck said: "We welcome all constructive points of view. But there have been a few which could be viewed as racist and anti-Semitic and that must stop immediately

"This is one thing we will not tolerate, whether in written correspondence, on the chat pages, on posters or banners, or through singing and chanting.

“It unfairly smears the reputation of the vast majority of Chelsea fans who rightly do not want to be associated with such activity.”

Club owner Roman Abramovich is also Jewish, as are numerous senior figures at the club including directors Eugene Tenenbaum and Eugene Shvidler.

Grant has proved staggeringly unpopular since his appointment 10 days ago. Fans at Stamford Bridge on Saturday chanted Mourinho’s name throughout the game and held up banners hailing the Portuguese.